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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok for the Sailors on here, this came from Navy Times. I agree with a lot of it. in my 15 years I've seen a lot of changes, the most recent are the ones that sting the worst. I'm glad I got Shell backed in 99 and went thru Chiefs transition/initiation/induction in 2010.


An obituary for Navy Tradition (USN, retired) — 1775-2013:
In a press release from Washington D.C., the Navy Department announced the death of Navy Tradition today after a long illness.
Navy Tradition was born into a world of turmoil and revolution in 1775. Starting with nothing as a child, Navy Tradition evolved to become an essential part of the most powerful Navy the world had ever seen. He was present when James Lawrence ordered “Don’t give up the ship” as he lay mortally wounded on the deck of the Chesapeake. He witnessed cannon balls bouncing off the copper-shielded sides of the USS Constitution, “Old Ironsides.”
He fought pirates off the Barbary Coast and suffered with his shipmates on the battleship Arizona during the attack at Pearl Harbor. He fought his way across the Pacific with Nimitz and saw MacArthur fulfill his promise to return to the Philippines. Navy Tradition was there when sailors fought bravely to save the frigate Stark after it was hit by a cruise missile and witnessed the launch of Tomahawk missiles from the battleship Missouri at the outset of Desert Storm.
Through all the strife, good times and bad, Navy Tradition was there to support his shipmates and give a balance to the misery that sometimes accompanied a life at sea. Be the nation at peace or at war, Navy Tradition made sure that we always remembered we were sailors.
He made sure that promotions were celebrated with an appropriate “wetting down”; crows, dolphins and wings were tacked on as a sign of respect from those already so celebrated; chiefs were promoted in solemn ceremony after being “initiated” by their fellow brethren; and only those worthy were allowed to earn the title “shellback.”
But in his later years, Navy Tradition was unable to fight the cancer of political correctness. He tired as his beloved Navy went from providing rations of rum to its sailors to conducting Breathalyzer tests on the brow. He weakened as he saw “Going into harm’s way” turn into “Cover your backside,” and as “Wooden ships and iron men” morphed into “U.S. Navy, Inc.”
A lifelong friend of Navy Tradition recalled a crossing-the-equator ceremony during World War II: “ I had to eat a cherry out of the belly button of the fattest sailor on the ship. It was disgusting. But for that few minutes, it took our minds off the war and to this day it is one of my greatest memories.”
In lieu of flowers, the family of Navy Tradition has asked that all sailors who have earned their shellback and drunk their dolphins; who remember sore arms from where their crows were tacked on and were sent on a search for “relative bearing grease” or a length of “water line”; who’ve been through chiefs’ initiation or answered ship’s call in a bar fight in some exotic port of call, to raise a toast one more time and remember Navy Tradition in his youth and grandeur.
Fair winds and following seas, Shipmate. You will be missed.
 

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Thanks Chief, I went in 1960 retired 1980 E-7 Diver. Went through it all and then some. shellback in 1965 Ass beating with a firehose and through the Garbage shoot. Laughed all the way through it. Chiefs initiation was a breeze and really fun after the equator crossing. Never see that stuff happening today and I can see why. It's technology hell you have to have a High School degree to even enter into Navy now. I dropped out of after 8th grade and went in at 17 years old.
 

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Navy Obituary

Good post. I only went through one of the sacred ceremonies, the CPO initiation and I will ever forget it. I don't think they allow them anymore, at least not the way we did.
Joined '59, retired '87. I look at today's Navy and am thankful every day that I am no longer in, as much as I loved it.
I go to the Navy Hospital and I don't know if the personnel are Navy, Marines, Air force or Army, due to all the different uniforms they have. I went to PSD for ID card renewal for the wife, and there was not ONE military personnel attached to the command! They have a CEO, CFO and all the other civilian titles. Me, being a Personnelman (now I think it's Personnel Specialist or something), couldn't believe it.
Of course, that's just a couple of changes since I retired.
Again, it's not the NAVY anymore.
 

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Ok for the Sailors on here, this came from Navy Times. I agree with a lot of it. in my 15 years I've seen a lot of changes, the most recent are the ones that sting the worst. I'm glad I got Shell backed in 99 .

what ship were you on for shell back. i went through in 1999 as well. It was pretty tame aboard Carl Vinson. We also dipped South of the equator on that cruise.
 

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I retired in 97 I haven't kept pace with the fast changing military PC programs since then. I understand that the changes are made with the best intentions but somehow Tradition was always a target for change. Some of the changes were for the good of the service but then many were not because they eroded the cohesiveness that the traditions enured. I can't say I miss it that much but I sure would like to have been able to play with some of the toys they have now.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
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markw,
I got shellbacked on the USS Juneau (LPD 10) I was an embarked troop with my USMC battalion we were on the 31st MEU. It was fairly tame then too(for the Marines that went thru At least..., Neptune gave me shit for being a Sailor with the Marines though!
Redneck and Sealark,
Dang I'd like to hear the stories of your induction into the Mess! I hear of the old ways, sounds crazy( some if it fun!) unfortunately induction/transition is gone we now have CPO 365 phase 2... not the same. I remember hearing ( when I was going thru) that transition was dying, damn sure wish it want true...
Kim,
You are right change is inevitable and usually good but I'm still gonna miss a lot of the old ways. In this new Navy I'm in I would never have made it to where I'm at now with new rules and what not!
 

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Was initiated at NAVSTA Keflavik, Iceland in '74. Can't say I luved it, but part of being a "Chief". Every military person looks back and says that was the days, but progress, etc., etc., civilian programs, Watermelon U, the list goes on. It's hell when ya see "real" military traditions go by the wayside for the sake of being politically correct or a more "friendly". Hope the new guys find something to look back on!
 

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Did not make a career of the Navy, but made a career of what I learned in the Navy. I worked on elevators aboard "The Rosie" (CVA-42), got out and retired from the elevator trade.

I never shellbacked, but I did find out in a hurry what it took to be a "greasy assed machinist mate". That was a helluva fight.

As a matter of fact, had several fights when I was a squid, both aboard ship and in "the gut" on shore. Too old for all that fun now.
 

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Went in in 1973 and retired in 2004. Saw lots of changes - was a Defense Attorney at a Chief's initiation in 1980 (they branded Chiefs back then) and crossed the Line becoming a trusty Shellback in 1983. Stuff that was standard then would be courtsmartial stuff today.
Disagree with lots of the changes but that is what it is. Only thing that stays the same is that things change...
 

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All right, CPO initeation. They make you tie a long string around your dick and the other end around a brick and hand you the brick. Then they blind fold you and tell you to walk around. The person that blindfolded you snips the line on the brick. Then as you are walking around someone knocks the brick out of your hand.
 

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Got "blood badged" when I finished EOD school at Indianhead Naval Ordnance Station in 1980 (I was an Army guy) .... wonder if they still do that since they moved the school down here?
 

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This is like the new covers that the Marine Corp proposes (apparently Obama is the source).

Here's the picture. Of course Sgt. Major Davis, a TWO time honoree of the Medal of Honor wore it pretty well.

Jim

PS I like the current covers.
 

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Enlisted in 57 as Non High school grad my cruise lasted until 87 Put on CPO hat in 71,since that time and even before shuttle changes were coming down the Pier, first one was in 69 as Boat Capt on PBR they took away our 12 Ga we used at night for close in sappers on river bank (Said that a 12 ga was cruel and inhumane weapon) also changed name of night time position of "Ambush: to Water Borne Guard post, BS we still hid and shot VC as we encountered them that is an Ambush, guess this was PC and didn't know it

Today following the Navy on Goat Locker(Chief's only web site) there appears to be no loyalty, no pride in ship or self, accountability is longer valid trait, one only wants more responsibility for the money, not as a leader or professional.

From CO on down there seems to be Little if any real loyalty, Chief are reluctant to go out on limb laying Hat on line to salvage a sailor gone astray,just throw them under bus, the work center see's this and lose respect for leaders.

Tradition has been throw over board in place of PC ,as written by MCPO Larry Dunn some time ago "There will come a time when the drums of war rattle across the land and Each Citizen must be willing and prepared to make the Final sacrifice to ensure the freedom we enjoy will perpetuated for those that follow".
Today I am not sure how many will show up to defend our way of life, Our moral decay and our walls are crumbling from with in,this frighten this old sailor , we really do not need any enemies as we are hell bent on self destruction, far to many have already given up the ship.

The Crews off USS Stark, USS Samuel B Roberts and USS Cole, USS San Francisco are men of Honor as they refused to lose their ship/sub Tin Can
 

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Navy

I'm afraid I agree with you Tin Can. I retired in 87 after 29 years service and could already see the changes coming down the road. Used to go to CPO club in NLON for lunch. New CO would have SP sitting at bottom of hill checking us out. They took all the beer machines out of the Nuclear Sub school barracks, because there was a lot of under age sailors living there that had access. Then the sailors had no choice but to go in town and do their thing and get arrested. The CPOs from all commands got together with the MCPOC and solved the problem. Beer machines back in barracks. In those days, as late as 87, when the CPOs got together, things would get solved. I notice today, as you do, I don't see any real pride and professionalism. Shame, I think one of the President's wives said the Sailor had the dirtiest mind and cleanest body!
 

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This is like the new covers that the Marine Corp proposes (apparently Obama is the source).

Here's the picture. Of course Sgt. Major Davis, a TWO time honoree of the Medal of Honor wore it pretty well.

Jim

PS I like the current covers.
Daly, not Davis. The cover is part of a plan to make the USMC "gender neutral." You alpha males need to dial it down a few notches.
 

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The USNA fell victim of PC many years ago. Just a few very old traditions that were squashed: Salty Sam, a student publication full of lampooning, and there were very few, in any, off limit targets. The "brick" ceremony, given to the midshipman who had the ugliest/fattest date that weekend. Eighth Wing Players: a student comedy troupe that lampooned anyone and everyone deserving of it. Smoking cigars after a "dining in," and I can only assume that the port wine is banned too.

I wonder what has been going on there since I graduated in 1986. Even back then there were "grey pony-tails" trying to indoctrinate us (I had a D in Intro to Political Science and raised that up to a C after getting an A+ on the final exam. I actually praised communism/Marx/Lenin/Stalin to the level of borderline sarcasm, but that's what the professor wanted to read.) With the Community Organizer in the White House, I can only imagine the worst.

I saw a Navy commercial that made me spit out my coffee. It showed a close-up of a fighter pilot in the cockpit (can't use that word anymore either) with the narration, "I will follow the orders of my superiors." WTH! It was drilled into our heads that you only follow the lawful orders! In other words, it was our duty to use our brains and moral compass, not "just follow orders." Is it showing a change in the corporate culture of the Navy? I wonder.
 

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So far as I've seen in my many visits to Hurlburt & Eglin last year there's plenty of military traditions still alive & honored & there's plenty of pride and professionalism . No doubt the soldiers, sailors, and airmen of today have their own unique challenges to respond to.

The only constant in the universe is "change", gentlemen.

Now ..... get off my lawn!
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
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Tin Can,
You are correct with your point there has been to much CYA within the mess, some of us still fight for our Sailors though. the good ole days of "tree line / fan room / con-ex counseling sessions are gone. Now hands are tied with correcting issues, I'm surprised we still have DRB's... There are still great Chiefs within the Mess, although many are reluctant to handle stuff at the lowest level for fear of repercussion when shit goes south. Any ways change sucks and change is inevitable, I hope the PC/ corporate Navy will get better though.
Jim,
Those covers suck! May have worked well in Dan Daileys day but the Corps has had the current one for a while and they look good. I'm surprised the USN hasn't scrapped the Dixie cover for something more unisex...
 

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Redneckboi //Nathar //Barker 8425

Shipmates, I feel we should take the CPO mess discussion private as we all know rules of talking out side the Mess and for our Fellow Chief's who are still on Active duty , I think best if we go PM route.

Went across line twice, hey some one had to go on down to Christ Church, Dunedin, Hobart Tasmania, and yes it was GD Cold and rough at 60 South when providing flight path (Tacan for planes going into the Ice

Real fast then off to PM, I stood by policy passed down to me from a WW II CPO

"The only time any one can take any thing away from you is when your ready to give it up""

Tin Can
 
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