Pensacola Fishing Forum banner

41 - 60 of 120 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,419 Posts
Not illegal at all if you get approved and pay your dues to the reef association and have it deployed in a legal area. That's what he's getting at...nobody is gonna want to put the time and effort and money into deploying reefs, if they are just gonna get acanned by those guys selling them off to everybody for profit.
Ok, that's some info that I didnt know. Not illegal IF A. Build per thier specs and wait for approval, B. Current dues payer, C. Legal area. So all in all if totaled maybe someone could either break even $$ wise maybe and follow the rules but be restricted to a certain area, or, just go buy a number hoping theres fish at maybe a place they prefer to go. Am I anywhere near close to being satisified? Not sure for me since I'm only a vacationer and I want to think I've got good #s. But there is an alternative for me...just go hire a guide or hit a charter I guess. Or I suppose if I had a radar unit on my boat and was watching someone catch a load of fish while going by, I could just mark thier spot and go back later and see. Then if I was really unscrupulous, after vaca and catching my limit....I could sell the spot. Good to know this is resolved! Thanks for the info.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,096 Posts
If its a permitted reef and documented with the state ,should it have some kind of protection from it being sold commercially....???????? If not a law should be made,if that would do any good......most boats don't share run over numbers, its everyones gulf,but if he's making money selling YOUR wreck #'s ,then thats bullshit.....I just recognized the Judges name in this case and didn't know the whole situation......I relate it to copyright laws....

i used to work on the trigger three and we would being going to a spot and would never get there from all the run over spots Burt Bessler would find ,he had a wide scan tranducer up front and a pinpointer up under his seat....There is alot of gulf out there and alot of structure that is unclaimed,so registered wrecks should have some protection from being sold imo.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,419 Posts
If its a permitted reef and documented with the state ,should it have some kind of protection from it being sold commercially....???????? If not a law should be made,if that would do any good......most boats don't share run over numbers, its everyones gulf,but if he's making money selling YOUR wreck #'s ,then thats bullshit.....I just recognized the Judges name in this case and didn't know the whole situation......I relate it to copyright laws....
That's probably exactly why some people dump those things illegally! They dont want to go thru all the hassle explained above and just do thier thing and hope nobody finds it. So really WHO is the real culprit here? Rest my case....

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,643 Posts
The sonar and radar technology available now has outstripped the concept of private reefs. I am not a fan of Strikelines, either, but the fact is that it's not illegal any more than it is for your buddy to say 'hey man I ran over a good spot today, here's the #'.

I have been fishing a couple of spots the last few years where we almost never saw boats, but this year they are all camped (and not holding the fish they used to), even by big charter boats that could easily take their clients to better fishing, one in particular out of Orange Beach... but I guess if you can put clients on some snapper, maybe they don't know you sold them short on size to save a few bucks on fuel, right? It's frustrating but it's just the nature of people and technology.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,643 Posts
Classic case of don't hate the player, hate the game.
Nah you can hate the players too if they're playing a dirty game. But it doesn't do you much good to get spooled up, just have to adapt and overcome. Don't mean you gotta like the guy. I know a couple charters I'll never recommend.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
Buying reef numbers would be just like paying somebody else to drive a boat often owned by yet another person or company, use said companies fancy fish equipment and take you out to fishing spots they know hold fish while you supply only money.

So we're all against commercial fishing too right? I need more money for this "fishing" thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
I understand why people may not like someone taking over a fishing reef that they created with their labor but, it is on public waters, and you do not own it. If you build a dock, you do not own the water around it, and the public is allowed to fish the water around your dock. It may suck to see someone on the spot you created, but It is public water and allowing individuals to restrict access to public waters should not be allowed.
Strike lines did nothing more than take advantage of modern technology and used it to map the sea floor. It used to be that people had to navigate by dead reckoning to arrive at the fishing area, that is no longer the case. Fortunately or unfortunately the changes in technology are resulting in loss of private fishing areas, whether the numbers are shared on an individual basis or by a business. Is there a difference in what Strikelines is doing compared to Cmor mapping or Garmin Bluechart? How many of you use one of the previously mentioned mapping systems?
I think the future of fishing is going to change drastically due to the changes in technology, and the increased pressure caused by the larger number of people engaging in the activity. I would expect more conflict as the number of people participating increases. The end result will be more restrictions in catch limits and seasons and less enjoyment overall. Bummer!
 

·
TJ McBoatFace
Joined
·
321 Posts
Unfortunately, the story is incorrect...even the title of this post is wrong. StrikeLines' website was not hacked. What the story leaves out - and perhaps most importantly - is that he was also found NOT GUILTY of the first count - Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which means the jury rejected the government's narrative that sophisticated hacking took place and accepted the defendant's version, and StrikeLines' OWN COMPUTER EXPERT'S TESTIMONY at trial (available for anyone to view on pacer as part of the trial transcript, which the "reporter" could have found if he had bothered to research anything, that they send the numbers in plain text to anyone who visits the website. He never attempted to sell anything, rejecting numerous people who offered to purchase them. The appeals process has already begun, and I hope each of you will follow it as the story unfolds.
Would love to read some of the transcript to learn more, any tips on navigating Pacer to find this and what to search for like case number or is it as easy as typing in Strikelines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
If its a permitted reef and documented with the state ,should it have some kind of protection from it being sold commercially....???????? If not a law should be made,if that would do any good......most boats don't share run over numbers, its everyones gulf,but if he's making money selling YOUR wreck #'s ,then thats bullshit.....I just recognized the Judges name in this case and didn't know the whole situation......I relate it to copyright laws....

i used to work on the trigger three and we would being going to a spot and would never get there from all the run over spots Burt Bessler would find ,he had a wide scan tranducer up front and a pinpointer up under his seat....There is alot of gulf out there and alot of structure that is unclaimed,so registered wrecks should have some protection from being sold imo.....
The State of Florida tried - it was called the Hidden Reef Bill but it never made it out of committee. As it stands now, you can go to your local record committee or do a Freedom of Information Act request and get any coordinates you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
I understand why people may not like someone taking over a fishing reef that they created with their labor but, it is on public waters, and you do not own it. If you build a dock, you do not own the water around it, and the public is allowed to fish the water around your dock. It may suck to see someone on the spot you created, but It is public water and allowing individuals to restrict access to public waters should not be allowed.
Strike lines did nothing more than take advantage of modern technology and used it to map the sea floor. It used to be that people had to navigate by dead reckoning to arrive at the fishing area, that is no longer the case. Fortunately or unfortunately the changes in technology are resulting in loss of private fishing areas, whether the numbers are shared on an individual basis or by a business. Is there a difference in what Strikelines is doing compared to Cmor mapping or Garmin Bluechart? How many of you use one of the previously mentioned mapping systems?
I think the future of fishing is going to change drastically due to the changes in technology, and the increased pressure caused by the larger number of people engaging in the activity. I would expect more conflict as the number of people participating increases. The end result will be more restrictions in catch limits and seasons and less enjoyment overall. Bummer!
Correct; however, as it stands now, per this case, each of the reefs/coordinates - paid for, permitted and deployed by others, are now the "trade secrets" of Strike Lines. See US Code 1839 (4) if you want to fact check me.
 

·
Neptune calls me "Daddy"
Joined
·
9,166 Posts
The State of Florida tried - it was called the Hidden Reef Bill but it never made it out of committee. As it stands now, you can go to your local record committee or do a Freedom of Information Act request and get any coordinates you want.

While you might know how to ask, most of us do not. How do I ask for these numbers.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Would love to read some of the transcript to learn more, any tips on navigating Pacer to find this and what to search for like case number or is it as easy as typing in Strikelines?
Most of the documents from the trial are public. Go to Login and create an account if you haven't already. In the drop down, where would you like to go, choose Northern District Florida Court. Then click the very top link in the middle. Then query at the top left. Last, first names, type in TImothy J Smith. Then run query. Click the court case number. All docs from the trial are there. It's document 100. In that, the defense sentencing memorandum, you will find the testimony of the two owners of SL and their own computer guy. Also, worth reading is where the judge asks him point blank about the browser area (where the coordinates are stored) if any administrative access is required [to view the numbers], and he says quote "no, that's an open source to the public". All of the documents are public, so feel free to dive in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Correct; however, as it stands now, per this case, each of the reefs/coordinates - paid for, permitted and deployed by others, are now the "trade secrets" of Strike Lines. See US Code 1839 (4) if you want to fact check me.
The reef locations are not a trade secret, the data accumulated by Strikelines is. If you want to buy your own Side Scan sonar and map the same areas you can. What you can’t do is take Strikelines proprietary mapping data and give it away or sell it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
The reef locations are not a trade secret, the data accumulated by Strikelines is. If you want to buy your own Side Scan sonar and map the same areas you can. What you can’t do is take Strikelines proprietary mapping data and give it away or sell it.
See the aforementioned court documents on Pacer. The alleged trade secrets are the gps coordinates of artificial fishing reefs. Per the court documents and testimony there was no sonar data acquired. As a matter of fact , the indictment itself stated the alleged trade secret was coordinates of artificial fishing reefs. As noted before, this is all public record in pacer. Pacer.gov. Feel feel to go see for yourself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
The reef locations are not a trade secret, the data accumulated by Strikelines is. If you want to buy your own Side Scan sonar and map the same areas you can. What you can’t do is take Strikelines proprietary mapping data and give it away or sell it.
I forgot to address your last sentence. Per the investigating officer’s testimony at trial in December, no attempts at enumeration were made. Further, the judge noted this past Wednesday at the sentencing hearing that the the defendants reason for this was NOT selling or profiting or any other enumeration, which she noted is typically the reason for “theft”.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
See the aforementioned court documents on Pacer. The alleged trade secrets are the gps coordinates of artificial fishing reefs. Per the court documents and testimony there was no sonar data acquired. As a matter of fact , the indictment itself stated the alleged trade secret was coordinates of artificial fishing reefs. As noted before, this is all public record in pacer. Pacer.gov. Feel feel to go see for yourself.
You referenced an article that is discussing the creation of a bill to remove private reef coordinates from the public domain. If the private reef coordinates are already public domain, then the coordinates are not trade secrets. Taking the data from Strikelines without compensation would be taking data that they created which is what is a trade secret. It sounds to me like you are saying that you could not use private reef coordinates that you found on your own, and if I read the article correctly it specifically states:

“This wouldn’t prevent you from fishing those reefs if you find them — the waters are open to the public,” said Sen. Greg Evers, R-Baker, sponsor of Senate Bill 846. “The only thing you can’t do is go to the county and pull the coordinates.“

The only thing I see that Strikelines has protected is the data base they created. Again, if you want to, you can buy a Side Scan sonar and create your own data base, I don’t think anyone can stop you ( as long as you get any permitting that may be required to operate it).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,509 Posts
I came here in 76 when all we had was land cuts to find reefs. Then loran C came in. I had seen what side scan sonar can find and wanted to get one. The price was way out of my range. Later GPS came in. Much better. I collected numbers from loran on.
When Strikelines started with sidescan I was upset and complained. But also had a lot of respect for him putting that much time and money he didn't have to accomplish his final goal. I'll let him publish what it is or was if he wants to.
With all the spots going down you could put 1 boat on every spot and still have many vacant spots. Good luck,
 
41 - 60 of 120 Posts
Top