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I support separation of commercial and recreational fishing. I support the ethics of sportsmen including

conservation of our fisheries and recommend taking only what you can use without waste within legal

limits.



This quote by Kim says a lot. I want to take it one step further. I also support the construction of Marine

Feeder Systems (basically no take sancturaries) in transitional waters between shore and deep water.

(50' - 150') which will allow for the natural replenishment of our fisheries. You can't keep taking more than

can be replaced. These areas can be used for recreational diving which would bring additional tourist $ to

the Gulf Coast. I ran some of these ideas past Vernon Minton last year, but have been too busy with other

projects to seriously follow up. What is the opinion of the PFF members on this.



If you would like more info, ask your questions and I will try to expand on my ideas a little more.



At some point we have to modify how we do things in order to protect and improve what we presently have.

The ideal senario would be to allow nature to do the work, while creating additional job opportunities.
 

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Wow, do some research on closed areas first.

Also, research how they actually count the fish stock. You'll see they don't get an acurate measure because they don't include artifical reefs (rigs, Oriskany, all that stuff) in their formulas.

If that doesn't give a glimpse that there really are no stock issues, I'll pull the 47 hours of footage we shot in 2008 of private reefs off Pensacola. Using the NMFS own fish counting structure, these reefs (all dropped within the past 5 years by one person) hold enough red snapper (in pounds) to account for the entire total allowable catch for teh Gulf of Mexcio with a good bit leftover.
 

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JoeZ, all I can tell you is that maybe you should share your data with the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Council. However they get their data, weather it is accurate or not, that is what they will use to set seasons and bag limits. Unless they use your data, it serves no purpose other than something to post about.
 

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Kim (1/1/2010)JoeZ, all I can tell you is that maybe you should share your data with the Gulf of Mexico Fisheries Council. However they get their data, weather it is accurate or not, that is what they will use to set seasons and bag limits. Unless they use your data, it serves no purpose other than something to post about.
Man, wish I'da thought of that.:poke

We took the DVDs to one of the council meetings. Passed out about 1,000 copies. FWC and NMFS staffed reviewed them at a break. I personally believe, though they dismissed them officially, this was part of the reason they went with the April-October season that year. Chairman Barretto mentioned the video when he announced the decision and recommended FWC staff and NMFS use similar research techinques in future decisions. He said they should contact us, then the RFRA, about it.

No contact was ever made.

There are agendas in play in the process. Staff (scientists mostly) doesn't want to be proven wrong because that would prevent them from climbing the ladder and getting bigger and better research grants (money). Many officials in NMFS have links to commercial fishing, they don't want to upset the apple cart because, well, it'd mess up their money. Not to mention the enviro lobby, which is loaded with money. I think that's why they call it Big Green.:shedevil

Simple truth is instead of mandating an end to overfishing based on bad science, the feeral government should mandate proper research techniques and base policy around sound data. Example: You're required to tote venting tools that studies show are pointless. Anything pulled from 80 feet of water or greater dies in a perfectly controlled environment. How do you expect that same fish to survive in a natural setting with predators? But, they don't account for science, they wnated a way to push the falsehood that released fish live to appease Big Green.

Kim (and everyone else) I appreciate your efforts and interest but I beg you to dig deeper into these issues and think all scenarios through carefully. If you read between the lines, you'll see there's very much an agenda or three at work here.

None of them benefit the average angler.
 

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As a person who enjoysfishing and hunting I look at some of these proposals and ask this question.

How enforceablewould this be forAlabama DNR, FWC etc.?

Circle hooks is one regulation which comes to mind.

Even if we don't agree with the lawmost sportsmen/women abide bythe regulations. How about those few that do not abide by the regulations and see these closed areas as a prime location to catch bigger and better fish.A lot of enforcement of closed areas (Madison Swanson, Steamboat Lumps) are patrolled by aircraft but the problem is these areas are open for transit and as you mentioned sport divers (not spear fishermen). How can the USCG or FWC tell if a boat anchored in that area is spear fishing or not.They can't send a cutter to board every boat on the hook out there.

Some bad eggs slip into these closed areas take some fish and slip back out before the can get checked.

Just a few of my thoughts...........
 

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The closure of fishing seasons (red snapper, grouper, amberjack) has the same effect as creating a no take zone.

Creating a no take area off our coast would only serve to play right into the hands of anti-fishing groups to include government regulators.
Mark W
 

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There is no reason to establish closed zones. There is OBVIOUSLY no shortage of snapper. Plus how do you think it woud go over with the poeple whosespots fall in those zones? I know I would be mad if a no fishing zone was set up on top of some of my numbers and I would continue to fish them regardless
 

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Freespool (1/1/2010)There is no reason to establish closed zones. There is OBVIOUSLY no shortage of snapper. Plus how do you think it woud go over with the poeple whosespots fall in those zones? I know I would be mad if a no fishing zone was set up on top of some of my numbers and I would continue to fish them regardless
Taht and unless they fence those areas in, the fish tend to move a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thinking out of the box.



Whenever anyone mentions no-take areas eveyone gets up in arms about how it will effect them. How

about focusing on creating habitat and allowing for sport and spear fishing, but not commercial fishing in

those areas? Creating and connecting full marine ecosystems. Benefiting those industries which bring

dollars from out of state. Charelston SC visitors spend $187 per day per person. What do tourists spend

per person along the Gulf Coast? I bet it's quite a bit less. Doesn't have to be.





Those habitat areas would be;



In-shore nursery areas (mangrove, tidal flats, grass flats, etc.) they can be added to as funds dictate or

under eminent domain regulations as storms reclaim areas which shouldn't have been built on in the first

place.



Near shore, can be a series of breakwater type areas, would be a transition type area which if left to its

own devices would start growing into reef areas. Would be the ideal locations for day trip recreational

divers.



Just off shore areas (50-150 depth) Continuous reef areas.



The reef areas should be parallel to the shore. There should be vertical reefs which connect the parallel

reefs.



The idea is to start building at points off each gulf state, building in each direction until hooking up

with neighboring states. Kinda like bicycle paths. Until you have a manmade reef stretching along the

whole US gulf coast from the keys to the Texas/Mexico border. The sheer scope would ensure a resource

like no other.



How to pay for it. I have ideas but I'm sure there are many board members out there who can give

constructive ways to come up with funds.



Materials; Tie it into recycling. Concrete, ships, cars, brick, stone, metal, etc. The supply of recycled

materials is long and vast.



Would anyone like to comment? Just positive ideas please. It's easy to bitch, but bitching doesn't do

any good unless you have a solution to fix what your bitching about.



Lets hear your solutions.
 

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Dplantmann (1/3/2010)Thinking out of the box.

Lets hear your solutions.


Okay..................

Instead of spending millions to remove the downtown wastewater treatment plant known as old stinky...............

Turn it into a fish hatchery.

Nearly all of the equipment and features currently on site could be re-utilized to hatch and raise fish to a size that has a better chance to survive when released into the gulf.

Make it a UWF course study of some sort of biology degree.



A joint partnership effort between UWF and all parties with their fingers in the local fisheries industry.
 

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markw4321 (1/1/2010)The closure of fishing seasons (red snapper, grouper, amberjack) has the same effect as creating a no take

Creating a no take area off our coast would only serve to play right into the hands of anti-fishing groups to include government regulators.
Mark W
I couldn't agree more!

I personally think these "no take zones" are a bad idea. They started doing that out in California they are called MPA zones Marine Preserve Areas and once they get there foot in the door the are gonna run with it! they recently shut down some of the most productive areas in San Diego area for inshore fishing. My biggest concern is they are gonna start doing this inshore too. Closing down grass beds and other productive areas. I personally wouldn't mind if they shut down areas to commercial fishing but I know if they do that then the rec. guys are next. Just think about how much money per pound of fish harvested we as recreational generate to the states economy, way more than commercial guys.

The bottom line is theres more reef fish habitat than ever before meaning more fish!
 

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johnsonbeachbum (1/3/2010)
Dplantmann (1/3/2010)Thinking out of the box.
Lets hear your solutions.
Okay..................
Instead of spending millions to remove the downtown wastewater treatment plant known as old stinky...............
Turn it into a fish hatchery.
Nearly all of the equipment and features currently on site could be re-utilized to hatch and raise fish to a size that has a better chance to survive when released into the gulf.
Make it a UWF course study of some sort of biology degree.

A joint partnership effort between UWF and all parties with their fingers in the local fisheries industry.
this is the stuff that needs to be done. not no fish zones and closing seasons when there are plenty of fish. we went in 80 ft of water a month ago and couldnt get out of the 12 lb snapper, some bigger, we measured one at 27 inches. crazy. we all know it is political, we just need to uncover what these officials are getting in return for using inaccurate data. or better yet look at the funding being passed out for research and see all of the high paying jobs and new boats and equipment being handed out.

like we have seen in the past with other topics, if a no fish zone is established it is a positive bet a bigger zone will be to follow. before you know it we cant fish under 300 ft of water. think this sounds crazy, then go ahead and support this and see
 

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johnsonbeachbum (1/3/2010)
Dplantmann (1/3/2010)Thinking out of the box.
Lets hear your solutions.
Okay..................
Instead of spending millions to remove the downtown wastewater treatment plant known as old stinky...............
Turn it into a fish hatchery.
Nearly all of the equipment and features currently on site could be re-utilized to hatch and raise fish to a size that has a better chance to survive when released into the gulf.
Make it a UWF course study of some sort of biology degree.

A joint partnership effort between UWF and all parties with their fingers in the local fisheries industry.
Thats a great idea!

My dad has been working on a plan to turn that place into an aquarium. He showed me his plans for it. The existing 14 tanks there would make it the largest in the world by volume. His proposal was shot down tho due to the problems concerning the Maritime Park. But I think adding a hatchery would be a great idea but I'm not sure what type of fish we need hatched? The only one I can think of are cobia, they would do great in those tanks
 

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It is not my idea. Someone awhile back in the PNJ wrote a viewpoint opinion piece with the idea of an aquarium.

Maybe that is your Dad. Brilliant idea in my opinion.

I truely believe the only reason it is being ignored and/or shot down is because "the right people" wont be making money from such an idea.



How on earth could an aquarium or fish hatchery not fit into a maritime themed park?
 

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Team Bloody Waters (1/3/2010)
markw4321 (1/1/2010)The closure of fishing seasons (red snapper, grouper, amberjack) has the same effect as creating a no take

Creating a no take area off our coast would only serve to play right into the hands of anti-fishing groups to include government regulators.
Mark W
I couldn't agree more!

I personally think these "no take zones" are a bad idea. They started doing that out in California they are called MPA zones Marine Preserve Areas and once they get there foot in the door the are gonna run with it! they recently shut down some of the most productive areas in San Diego area for inshore fishing. My biggest concern is they are gonna start doing this inshore too. Closing down grass beds and other productive areas. I personally wouldn't mind if they shut down areas to commercial fishing but I know if they do that then the rec. guys are next. Just think about how much money per pound of fish harvested we as recreational generate to the states economy, way more than commercial guys.

The bottom line is theres more reef fish habitat than ever before meaning more fish!
There are already MPA's here that prohibit commercial fishing. Ft. Pickens Marine perserve which inluceds the pass an all the water extending to either gate (Ft pickens and perdido) and the Yellow River MPA which encompasses most of the bay soth of the river.
 
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