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Discussion Starter #121
Good morning Mark



My post on this subject was Cut & Pasted

This Motion was made by a council member and voted on by the council. Not the S.O.S Group.



But it looks good to Me.
 

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Discussion Starter #122
Kim (10/26/2009)I may be wrong on the percentages but i seem to recall reading something about the SOS plan that had breakdowns. Commercial fishing gets 51 % of the TAC and the recreational sector (including charte rboats) gets 49 % of the TAC. Under the SOS plan Commercial boats would get 51%, charter boats would get 25% and that would leavie 24% of the TAC for the recreational anglers. Even if the percentages are off a few points the math still adds up. The SOS plan is going to take fish as it's share but not take them from recreational anglers, that math don't work. Now if you say we're going to take 25% of the recreational TAC for our paying customer recreational anglers and leave the rest of you recreational anglers 24%, now that adds up.



Kim


Ether way you want to say it Kim.

I would be able to take normal everyday people fishing and be able to control overfishing in our sector.
 

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Eugene

Understandall.Gulf council motion includeda seperate for-hire sectorthat includesnot just red snapper but vermillion snapper (mingo), triggerfish, amberjack, and groupers,all species that have a TAC includingking mackerel.

Mark W
 

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Discussion Starter #124
Yes sir it says all fisheries with : ACLs and AMs for all species that have commercial and recreational allocations.



I was not there so this was cut & pasted
 

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capt.eugene (10/27/2009)Yes sir it says all fisheries with : ACLs and AMs for all species that have commercial and recreational allocations.

I was not there so this was cut & pasted
Holy crap!!! I thought stealing the snapper was bad enough, but stealing everything! Wow! All I got is....WOW!!
 

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Discussion Starter #126
Matt Mcleod (10/27/2009)
capt.eugene (10/27/2009)Yes sir it says all fisheries with : ACLs and AMs for all species that have commercial and recreational allocations.



I was not there so this was cut & pasted


Holy crap!!! I thought stealing the snapper was bad enough, but stealing everything! Wow! All I got is....WOW!!


Well thanks for not calling me a Liar this time .
 

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recreational anglers...we should all stop communicating with anybody who supports the SOS plan...they are OUR enemy! They want our resource for themselves so they can continue to earn their living. They will not stop at anything to protect what they believe to be theirs!



We should continue to fight the SOS plan as well as the federal government but the real fight should be resumed against the state of florida which sold us out to the federal government.



Remember this we have 9 miles of state water to fish for red snapper and we can should be able to fish these waters 365 days a year. We should go back and fight for our right to continue to fish state waters and let the federal government and the destin charter fleet determine what they can do in federal waters.



We need to have florida allow us to place reefs inside 9 miles and we would never have to go out in federal waters to catch fish.



The federally permited destin fleet could not fish in state waters allowing us full regine of the state fishery!



so i say...



stop talking to commercial fishermen such as eugene who are signed on to the SOS plan.



stop talking to commercial fisherman such as lbhuntley who have the right and you do not to go catch 500lbs of red snapper and sell. If he thinks there is such a problem why does he not set forward and say i will not catch 500lbs of red snapper until the fishery has recovered!



fight hard with the state of florida to allow us to fish state red snapper



fight hard to allow more reefs to be built in state waters.



DO NOT SUPPORT any captain who has signed on to the SOS plan...myself i know several of these captains and send them a very large amount of business...they will no longer receive any referrals from me.



fight the federal government last because if we get state waters opened back up again we can catch plenty of red snapper...pensacola bay is full of red snapper!!!!!!



i wished the federal government would just close down the federal waters for two years and then our state waters be opened...no more commercial/charter destin fleet...destin would quickly sell property for condo use no more marinas and no more destin fleet. woohoo!!!!!!!



it is time for us recreational anglers to be civilly disobedient!



tight lines and great fishing adventures until we loose them all to the commercial/charter boat industry!
 

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Discussion Starter #128
Capt. Wes



Looks like you need the communication without it you would not now what was going on.



The last realization Just took five days with it being in a one line sentence at the beginning of the thread.



And AGAIN WES I DON'T HAVE A COMMERCIAL LICENSE!!!
 

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capt.eugene (10/24/2009)To much drama Jon besides you will be able to keep your catch under The S.O.S plan.

Hey I have great idea lets go AJ fishing today can't do it that my fault. Lets go get Quick Mess of snapper O hey Can't do that ether Guess that is my fault to.


Be constructive Jon your to smart to keep on Fighting with me.
go ahead and laugh now capt. ... but remember this, as a rec fisherman I have chartered many, many, times and I do have my own boat, but if this thing does pass legislation, I will NEVER again pay a charter capt. and that is a promise
 

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lyle-t (10/27/2009)
capt.eugene (10/24/2009)To much drama Jon besides you will be able to keep your catch under The S.O.S plan.



Hey I have great idea lets go AJ fishing today can't do it that my fault. Lets go get Quick Mess of snapper O hey Can't do that ether Guess that is my fault to.





Be constructive Jon your to smart to keep on Fighting with me.


go ahead and laugh now capt. ... but remember this, as a rec fisherman I have chartered many, many, times and I do have my own boat, but if this thing does pass legislation, I will NEVER again pay a charter capt. and that is a promise


lyle...not all charter captains are for this, so don't take it out on all of them. water hazard, matt mcleod, wes rozier are all charter captains and would love to have your business, and your support against the SOS plan. Just make sure you don't use any of the captains or vessels on this list, and make sure that none of your friends do...feel free to pass it around and tell your friends not to give these people their business either



http://saveoursector.com/supporters/supporters_full.aspx
 

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I'm a recreational fisherman, but I have spent most of my adult life working in and around a "regulated industry". That experience has given me an insight into a part of the dynamic that is working here that I would like to pass on.

Once Congress has decided that a sector needs "regulating" and sets up a body to do so a certain self-reinforcing cycle sets in. The "regulators" are all types of people, like the rest of us, but they do have a tendency to place a higher value onjob security than a sense of accomplishment or rewardcompared tomost in the private sector (to put it politely). Lots of us would go stark raving nuts in their jobs.

Like most of us, they do want to feel that they are doing their jobs and they want their jobs to be as little hassle as possible. Long story short, the larger and more concentrated an entity is, the easier it is to regulate. They don't want to drive the smaller and less concentrated out of the activity, they just want their jobs to be accomplished in the most efficient satisfying (to them) way possible and that shapes their input into the regulations.

The regulators and legislators also have a pretty close relationship, despite any claims that may be made to the contrary. The regulators are "experts" to the legislators and they both want the regulation to be accomplished with as little fuss as possible, public claims to the contrary not withstanding.

The regulations/regulators will favor whatever set of regulations makes their job easiest and most economicalto accomplish - and what they favor is what will happen. I've fought that mindset and lost. Thousands, probably millions,of Americans have fought that and lost since 1792. Think about that as you allocate time and energy to the problem.

I'll probably get some flames for this post, so be it, but that's what I've learned, and not easily.
 

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biggamefishr (10/27/2009)

lyle...not all charter captains are for this, so don't take it out on all of them. water hazard, matt mcleod, wes rozier are all charter captains and would love to have your business, and your support against the SOS plan. Just make sure you don't use any of the captains or vessels on this list, and make sure that none of your friends do...feel free to pass it around and tell your friends not to give these people their business either

http://saveoursector.com/supporters/supporters_full.aspx




I agree with that Josh. All charter captains do not support this plan. In fact it really is a small portion of the overall charter industry. What happens though if this thing passes? All charters that stay in the business will be under this plan whether they supported it or not. I myself could not go on a charter or recomend any charter if this plan passes. I myself as a recreational angler will not be able to go and catch/keep fish in my own boatduring a recreational closed season, yet, I can if I pay a charter since they are under a For-Hire sector which is different.:banghead That is a load of horse crap if I have ever seen it.

I agree that we should support only those that are against the plan right now. I would hope that those charter owners are fighting this plan. Because if this plan goes through, every charter will be lumped together. And I will not spend my money or send anyone to spend their money on another charter if this thing passes. Whether they supported the SOS plan or not.
 

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The NMFSis probably sitting back and laughing right now at all that is going on as a result of theabuse of their power. They are the REAL enemy and it just stinks that they have forced the recreational sector to divide and point fingers. I, as a charter captain and a recreational angler, am not at all in favor of the SOS plan and feelit isnot a good solutionto the problem that the governmenthas created. However, this is the wrong battle for us to be fighting as we need to take our ideas and opinions to our elected officials who can speak on our behalf and fight the feds,incompetent scientists and tree hugging special interest groupswho are trying to control OUR resources of which they have no idea about.We all agree thatthe Fed's absurd interpretation of the Magnuson-Stevens Actis wrong and the resulting over restrictive regulations are crippling us.It is time to unite and fight the real enemies before they take everything away.
 

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The OLE ScrewOthers Severely!!!!!!

Thats what I see the SOS plan stands for. The Charter Fleets can put this montoring devices and catch logs on their vessels without a seperate allocation of the Rec.TAC. Yes the for-hire vessels CAN.

Now Capt. Wes is right on the money about putting pressure on FWC. Its time "WE THE PEOPLE" show government agencies the power of the people. WE monkey boat fishers need not to renew our State Fishing lincense. Think what kind of revenue shortfall the FWC would have if no one purchased a Fishing lincense. "WE THE PEOPLE" have great power if we play our cards right. We are falling right into what the FEDS. want. That is toseparate the the power of the REC. side of the TAC. By putting For-hire against the Monkey boats as the For-hire refer to us as. 2yrs ago the for-hire sector and the monkey boats stood as one. The next year the for-hire vessels and the Monkey boats we divided. That is just what the FEDS. wanted to happen. FWC noticed the not standing together, and were amazed that this was happening. I was at both meetings myself. The monkey boats better wake up and start to make some noise. The squecky wheel will get the grease. Why can't the TAC be seperated 33% for comm, 33% for-hire, 33% for the monkey boats?? Well that is the hard button. So I see the SOS plan is the easy button for the For-hire sector. Yes the easy button, Capt. Eugene says this himself in previous posts on this thread. The fight used to be brother (comm) against brother (rec). now it is brother against brother against brother. Its amazing that this has happened. But it is just what the FEDS. want.

I'mNOT ready to give up the fight against State and FED. regulators. Its just time to show what power "WE THE PEOPLE " have.
 

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Telum Pisces (10/27/2009)

I agree that we should support only those that are against the plan right now. I would hope that those charter owners are fighting this plan. Because if this plan goes through, every charter will be lumped together. And I will not spend my money or send anyone to spend their money on another charter if this thing passes. Whether they supported the SOS plan or not.


Jon, the SOS only benefits Federal Permit Holding Boats. Those of us without Federal Permits who fish in State Waters only are not managed by the federal gov't.

Capt Wes Has a great point. In Florida we have a lot of State Water we can catch Snapper in. If we could convince FWC to not give in to the Feds we would not need to go beyond 9 miles for Snapper.
 

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Water Hazard (10/27/2009)
Telum Pisces (10/27/2009)

I agree that we should support only those that are against the plan right now. I would hope that those charter owners are fighting this plan. Because if this plan goes through, every charter will be lumped together. And I will not spend my money or send anyone to spend their money on another charter if this thing passes. Whether they supported the SOS plan or not.


Jon, the SOS only benefits Federal Permit Holding Boats. Those of us without Federal Permits who fish in State Waters only are not managed by the federal gov't.

Capt Wes Has a great point. In Florida we have a lot of State Water we can catch Snapper in. If we could convince FWC to not give in to the Feds we would not need to go beyond 9 miles for Snapper.


Then that is where I will send people. Thanks, I forgot about that.
 

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This just gets more and more wierd all the time. It reminds me of Pee Wee Herman trying to tell all the boys and girls, "It's all right, everyone else is wrong.":nonono
 

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What percentage of the Recreational TAC is currently taken by the charters?



Now the SOS guys would like to say it's 58%, and use the current bad data to support that argument.

But really what do you non-SOS guys think it really is?



Also, since everyone agrees the current data is bad, what methods do you suggest to produce accurate data for the non-commercial/non-charter sector? Are you willing to report you're entire catch as you enter the pass? You going to call NMFS on every trip? You want to buy fish stamps? The feds will push until they find the cheapest method to produce accurate data.



Now sampling fish populations of certain reefs in specific areas is a great way to estimate current overall fish populations, and reduces the need for catch surveys, but that means federally funded research vessels. Where's that funding coming from? Stimulus package maybe, to help protect the lively hood of commercial, charter and recreational interest? Likely not going to happen.



How about limiting the number of reefs that need counting to just those reefs within protected marine reserves? So maybe we don't have enough protected marine reserves in our area. You willing for the feds to create more marine reserves?



Personally I like the idea of no commercial or charter fishing allowed in state waters, and the federal/state encouragement of public and private inshore reef creation. Basically that's a huge limited-use marine reserve.
 
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