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capt.eugene (10/25/2009)
Matt Mcleod (10/25/2009)Ok, let me try to get my mind around this. You want to be separate from the rec sector so that you can collect better data, because we both agree that the data is COMPLETELY BOGUS. All you ask is that you get to take 58% of the rec fisherman's fish with you, because that's what the data says you deserve? So the data is only wrong if it doesn't benefit you, but when it does then all the sudden it's not so bad?

58% of the rec catch? So once you break it down to IFQ's there will be what, maybe 10-12 guys who control the majority of that 58%. 10-12 guys who control the majority of the RECREATIONAL FISHERMAN'S red snapper catch?

If that doesn't get you up off the couch to sing the national anthem nothing will!!
Like I said a year ago on here we want to freeze the numbers now.

Collect Data for two years and then Hash it out if you would have payed attention you mite remember those things.


How do you figure 10 or 12 people will control it.
What a scam, the numbers are crap now and they'll be crap in two years.
 

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Water Hazard (10/25/2009)<P align=left>Here is where they are trying to confuse everyone with words. The quote below is straight from the SOS site. Even though they want to be seperate they are saying that their customers on their for hire boats are still recreational anglers, when in fact their "recreational anglers" on their federally permitted charter boats would be keeping a seperate quota of fish which would be taken away from private boat owners. So the charter boats are taking fish away from private boat owners to sell to customers on federally permitted boats. Pretty smart to word it like that, but I think your caught....<P align=left>"Some people have stated that our desire for a sector separation would leave the private<P align=left>recreational fishermen with only a small portion of the TAC. We don?t understand this<P align=left>argument and feel that it is simply a tactic to obfuscate the issue. Under the SOS plan<P align=left>not one fish will be taken away from any recreational angler. One hundred percent of the<P align=left>recreational TAC would still be caught by recreational anglers. It is just that under the<P align=left>SOS plan those fish that are caught aboard for-hire boats would be accounted for

separately, using a separate set of tools."
That's exactly what I'm talking about! Liar Liar pants on fire!
 

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Discussion Starter #85
Matt Mcleod (10/25/2009)
Water Hazard (10/25/2009)<P align=left>Here is where they are trying to confuse everyone with words. The quote below is straight from the SOS site. Even though they want to be seperate they are saying that their customers on their for hire boats are still recreational anglers, when in fact their "recreational anglers" on their federally permitted charter boats would be keeping a seperate quota of fish which would be taken away from private boat owners. So the charter boats are taking fish away from private boat owners to sell to customers on federally permitted boats. Pretty smart to word it like that, but I think your caught....<P align=left>"Some people have stated that our desire for a sector separation would leave the private<P align=left>recreational fishermen with only a small portion of the TAC. We don?t understand this<P align=left>argument and feel that it is simply a tactic to obfuscate the issue. Under the SOS plan<P align=left>not one fish will be taken away from any recreational angler. One hundred percent of the<P align=left>recreational TAC would still be caught by recreational anglers. It is just that under the<P align=left>



SOS plan those fish that are caught aboard for-hire boats would be accounted for




separately, using a separate set of tools."


That's exactly what I'm talking about! Liar Liar pants on fire!


Now you really sound like a child What is the lie A>>HOLE.
 

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you are mis representing information Capt Eugene to try and make it look like you are not taking anything away from private boat owners. Right now, the quota is for charter boats and private boat owners. What you are trying to do will take more than half of that quota for your own benefit and leave private boat owners with less than half of what they have now.

You are saying give me more than half the quota and I will have people pay me to take them fishing and I will make money off it, then leave the private guys with less than half of what they have now. How is that benefiting private boat owners? How is that even fair???

As it stands right now at least the private boat owners have a equal chance to take what you take. In my eyes, Mis representing information is a lie.
 

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Water Hazard (10/25/2009)you are mis representing information Capt Eugene to try and make it look like you are not taking anything away from private boat owners. Right now, the quota is for charter boats and private boat owners. What you are trying to do will take more than half of that quota for your own benefit and leave private boat owners with less than half of what they have now.



You are saying give me more than half the quota and I will have people pay me to take them fishing and I will make money off it, then leave the private guys with less than half of what they have now. How is that benefiting private boat owners? How is that even fair???



As it stands right now at least the private boat owners have a equal chance to take what you take. In my eyes, Mis representing information is a lie.


You don't have the people fishing we do "Anglers" AS it stands we ALL are OVER FISHING the TAC we must fix it.



AND THE ONLY WAY TO FIX IT IS IN THEIR SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS THE LAW NOW.



WE ALL STARTED THIS CRAP "2000 YEARS" AGO WHEN WE STARTED COMMERCIAL FISHING AND TRADING FOR GOODS AND SERVICES NOT TILL FIFTHY OR SIXTY YEARS AGO DID THE REC FISHERMAN LEAVE THE F>>EN HILL AND GET ON A COMMERCIAL BOAT AND CALL IT A CHARTER .NOT TWENTY OR THIRTY YEARS AGO DID THE REC BUY A BOAT AND START FISHING ON THIER OWN AND NOW YOU DESERVE YOUR SHARE (and you do) AS DO I.



SHORT SEASONS EARLY CLOSURES ARE NOT THE WAY TO GO FOR ANY OF US.



GOOD NIGHT AND GOD HELP US ALL we need it.
 

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So start accounting for the fish with these tools on the for hire sector without sector seperation. If you TRULY are not selfish and if your plan is for the good of the fishery, you do not need sector seperation to use all the TOOLS that you are talking about using on the SOS plan. The truth is that you guys are selfish and want a section of the pie before you will agree to the management tools. It's kind of like my 3 year old daughter trying to bargin her way out of trouble to benifit her. It is SELFISH and wrong. You can just as easily do everything you talk about without taking a portion of the recreational IFQ.
 

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I believe my fellow recreational fishermen above are right and on to your untruths.

I am by no means anti charter boat. I believe that people can make a living sharing the fishing experience with other people WITHOUT abusing the resource or fellow recreational fishermen.And since I do support the charter industry let me explain why the SOS plan is bad for MANY charter boat operators.

Eugene, did you explain your intentions to all the people who you got to sign your petition? Did you tell them this plan will help all charter boats equally or did you tell them about your hidden agenda?

This plan is the first step towards charter IFQ's. The charter IFQ's will be distributed based on the boat's catch history, probably based on the next couple years after the SOS would pass and the charter boats are collecting all their "data". And the guys who know about this plan will exaggerate their catches for those couple years. Then the IFQ's will be given out based on what percentage of the charter TAC they have been catching, not there actual catches for those years! This is VERY important because thelarge operations will receive the majority of the TAC (the same amount they have been catchingor more for those who manipulated their catch history)while the smaller operations will actually receive much less than what they have actually been catching because their percentage is much less. Thus pushing many captains out of business!

This is a warning for charter operators: If you run a 6 pack boat or a smallmulti passengerboat the SOS plan will put you out of business!

You and the other captains like youwill be sitting at the dock after 3 weeks while you watch the 65Resmondo's run trip after trip till October. At that point the SOS plan is not going to seem so appealing!

The business and the recource will be owned by these few elite people. That is an injustice. We live in a country that promotes freedom, fairness and competition. The SOS plan promotes monopoly, dishonesty, and greed.The American dream and American valuesare based on the idea that NO ONE owns a right by taking it from another.

 

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Discussion Starter #92
Telum Pisces (10/26/2009)So start accounting for the fish with these tools on the for hire sector without sector seperation. If you TRULY are not selfish and if your plan is for the good of the fishery, you do not need sector seperation to use all the TOOLS that you are talking about using on the SOS plan. The truth is that you guys are selfish and want a section of the pie before you will agree to the management tools. It's kind of like my 3 year old daughter trying to bargin her way out of trouble to benifit her. It is SELFISH and wrong. You can just as easily do everything you talk about without taking a portion of the recreational IFQ.


Jon

I have a 1985 ZZ top CD with a ton of scratches that does not repeat or get stuck as much as you.



NMFS wants Sector Sep more than I.



It was on their agenda LONG before we put it there
 

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capt.eugene (10/26/2009)
Telum Pisces (10/26/2009)So start accounting for the fish with these tools on the for hire sector without sector seperation. If you TRULY are not selfish and if your plan is for the good of the fishery, you do not need sector seperation to use all the TOOLS that you are talking about using on the SOS plan. The truth is that you guys are selfish and want a section of the pie before you will agree to the management tools. It's kind of like my 3 year old daughter trying to bargin her way out of trouble to benifit her. It is SELFISH and wrong. You can just as easily do everything you talk about without taking a portion of the recreational IFQ.
Jon
I have a 1985 ZZ top CD with a ton of scratches that does not repeat or get stuck as much as you.

NMFS wants Sector Sep more than I.

It was on their agenda LONG before we put it there
And I have a pile of crap that doesn't stink as bad as the SOS group. IfNMFS wants it more than you, why not dropsector seperationportion of the SOSplan.I somehow do not remember there being an option on the table for this SOS plan/sector seperationtill the SOS supporters brought it up to NMFS. I have read the notes in the past. It was not mentioned till this small group ofchartersand the environmentalgroup came up with thisasinine plan. I don't see you offering to drop that portion of the plan either. The plan is SAVE or Sector (the selfish way). So you are trying to be selfish and take what you think is yours. It is not yours. I think we should give you exactly what YOU have caught and kept. Oh that's right, the captain and crew has not been able to keep ANY fish as part of their charter. So that means that your RECREATIONAL customers caught and kept all of the fish landed on your boats. So if you want only what you have historically landed, I say, by all means, let you have a big fat ZERO.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
YES MATT



They actually CAN READ and did so on their own and came to their own conclusion to sign on with us.



On the other hand you don't READ the plan you scan it pick at it call people LIARS/SOB's without completely understanding it go with propaganda put out by others and so on, so on, so on.





Jon

I have a 1985 ZZ top CD with a ton of scratches that does not repeat or get stuck as much as you.



MATT AND JON May god enlighten you today that gust because you don't understand something does mean the people behind it are LIAR'S.
 

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capt.eugene (10/26/2009)

MATT AND JON May god enlighten you today that gust because you don't understand something does mean the people behind it are LIAR'S.
Someone needs to enlighten you that your ideas about the SOS plan are not going to go the way you want them to here at PFF. Seems like you are the only one on here that supports this crap. But there is one thing that you are doing that I like. You are bringingthe light to many more recreational anglers. The more you post about this plan, the more people that are seeing how much of a load a crap it is. So keep posting away. The more people we can get fired up about resisting this plan, the better.
 

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Telum Pisces (10/26/2009)
capt.eugene (10/26/2009)

MATT AND JON May god enlighten you today that gust because you don't understand something does mean the people behind it are LIAR'S.
Someone needs to enlighten you that your ideas about the SOS plan are not going to go the way you want them to here at PFF. Seems like you are the only one on here that supports this crap. But there is one thing that you are doing that I like. You are bringingthe light to many more recreational anglers. The more you post about this plan, the more people that are seeing how much of a load a crap it is. So keep posting away. The more people we can get fired up about resisting this plan, the better.
BINGO!!!
 

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capt.eugene (10/26/2009)YES MATT

They actually CAN READ and did so on their own and came to their own conclusion to sign on with us.

On the other hand you don't READ the plan you scan it pick at it call people LIARS/SOB's without completely understanding it go with propaganda put out by others and so on, so on, so on.


Jon
I have a 1985 ZZ top CD with a ton of scratches that does not repeat or get stuck as much as you.

MATT AND JON May god enlighten you today that gust because you don't understand something does mean the people behind it are LIAR'S.
I'm sorry, at what point did I say I didn't understand what is going on? I understand everything fine.

I have now shown why the SOS plan is bad for recreational fishermen and a large group of charter captains and all you can say is for God to enlighten me?

Where is your reasoning? Where is the debate on the issue?
 

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Matt, according to recreational catch data for 09, http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/catch/time_series.html,recreationalharvested 3,581,005 lbs or1,13,005 over the 09 recreational quota of 2,450,000 lbs. This factprobably means the 2010 rs season will be cut in half, or approx 35 dayinstead of 65. Don't you recognize something must be done tobetter manage the fishery forbothprivate recreational and charter and it can't be faith based? Matt, thetruthmay be that there are too many recreational fishermento have a meaningful rs season and to ensure stock recovery based on Magnuson-Stevens. At a minimum the SOS plan is an attempt to better manage the resource for charter.
 

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lb

you must be one terrible fisherman to believe those numbers. you cant drop a lead out there without hittin a couple of snappers in the head.
 

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capt.eugene (10/25/2009)Real Data Gets you longer seasons and getting fishing back to what it was. without sudden closures


capt.eugene (10/25/2009)



capt.eugene (10/23/2009)

Guys this is what I have been trying to say to you all along. One or Two or Three/ALL [Check's by LEO] Per person are then Averaged thru some Mathematic Formula on All fishing Lic. Stop the B>>>hen to your Senators. and Start volunteering for Some sort of tag/reporting system.give N.M.F.S. the numbers to fix this problem .


We want what we have Caught in history % wise I don't have it in front of me And look back a little on this site.

But from memory it is something like 49-58% Of the Recreation Tac That is around half.


OK...I usually stay ou tof this political stuff, because I am not very smart on thes subjects since I have only lived here 5 years, and am still learning a bunch about our fishieries.



But let me see if I got this right. Correct me if I'm wrong...cuz you (Eugene) really have me scratching my head.



#1. The ONLY reason you want this to pass, is not at all to ge more fish or anything like that, but SOLEY because you say the data is flawed, and there needs to be a better way to get accurate data??



#2. In order to "help" get this better data, you are going to use the flawed data, that you yourself have said is flawed, (hell, thats the whole reason you want this SOS plan, right? Because the current data is so flawed?) and base what you should be able to catch, and what I should be able to catch, on FLAWED data?



Seems like a catch 22. Maybe I'm just not very intelligent, I don't know.



Guess it's not to bad though. You are telling us it will only be for 2 years. Hell, thats not a long time. Let me see...cost of boat ownership, fishing license, fishing/spearfishing gear...priceless moments spent out with friends and family fishing.



2 years??? Not to long.... NOT!!! Thats a friggin prison sentence dude.



But please explain again how you justify taking 51% of the TAC based on DATA THAT EVEN YOU SAY IS FLAWED AND IS THE WHOLE BASIS OF WHY YOU WANT THIS SOS PLAN (according to you, but I think the real reason is obvious)?



capt.eugene (10/25/2009)



Like I said a year ago on here we want to freeze the numbers now.



Collect Data for two years and then Hash it out if you would have payed attention you mite remember those things.


Dude, I'm an uneducated yankee that knows nothing about these fishieries and such, but even I have to call bullshit on this one.
 
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