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Well it's on the news again, just watched it. Now there is talk about a 30 day Red Snapper season next year. The only people talked to about the situation were charter boat captains. I Feel for them but they are no different then people that worked in the auto industry. When the bottom drops out it's time to find a new job. It's harsh I know but that is the reality in our country especially in these hard economic times. I can't wait for the day when I see something like that on the news and the only people interviewed are recreational anglers.



Kim
 

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I've been reading all the news about theRed Snapper situation. The thing that baffles me is howthe scientists can think they are endanged when anyone that goes fishing knows that they are everywhere.
 

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Kim (11/2/2009)Well it's on the news again, just watched it. Now there is talk about a 30 day Red Snapper season next year. The only people talked to about the situation were charter boat captains. I Feel for them but they are no different then people that worked in the auto industry. When the bottom drops out it's time to find a new job. It's harsh I know but that is the reality in our country especially in these hard economic times. I can't wait for the day when I see something like that on the news and the only people interviewed are recreational anglers.

Kim
Bad comparison, NOBODY in government banned people from buying cars, the car businesses were managed poorly. The government is slowly but surely banning the catch of every fish in the ocean, not the same.

I hate to say it but this rift between the recreational anglers and charter boat businesses is going to be the downfall of the recreational catch. While we argue and piss and moan about each others agendas the commercial fisherman are laughing all the way to the bank. While we recreational anglers can't catch RedSnapper and argue amongst ourselves the Destin Fish Market is advertising freshly caughtRedSnapper for sale, I wonder where they got that!:banghead
 

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Think again. The marine resources were managed poorly by the Department of Commerce and the NMFS. The same sort of poor management of industry and labor caused the problems for the auto industry and look what happened to them. Fishing hasn't been banned at all, it's just being regulated out of existence by poor management and control. If the fishery is over fished at this second close the catch for everyone til next season.



Kim
 

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Kim,the only sector overfishingred snapper and greater amberjack is recreational. Commercial and charter are closed fisheries. There's been a moratorium on newreef permits for both,andI believecharterCaptsmake as many trips as possible each yearjust to make a living. Like commercial, their numbers don'tchange. Commercial cannot legally harvest more than 51% of the TAC and eachlb is strickly accounted for. Charter, like commercial,would liketo account for their catch so they are not penalized by recreational overfishing.

The answers are: commercial individual fishing quotas,charter SoS, and limited entry for recreational; the only ways to reduce overfishing. Tags, through a lottery,may bean answer for recreational.
 

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lbhuntley (11/3/2009)Kim,the only sector overfishingred snapper and greater amberjack is recreational. Commercial and charter are closed fisheries. There's been a moratorium on newreef permits for both,andI believecharterCaptsmake as many trips as possible each yearjust to make a living. Like commercial, their numbers don'tchange. Commercial cannot legally harvest more than 51% of the TAC and eachlb is strickly accounted for. Charter, like commercial,would liketo account for their catch so they are not penalized by recreational overfishing.

The answers are: commercial individual fishing quotas,charter SoS, and limited entry for recreational; the only ways to reduce overfishing. Tags, through a lottery,may bean answer for recreational.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The commercial and charter fleet numbers are pretty much static. However with the growth of our population is pretty fast which in turn means more recreational anglers as time passes. It does not make sense to reduce the % of the TAC for recreational anglers. Most recreational anglers are not meat boats like the charter boats are. Filling our coolers is not a great incentive for us to fish. Most of us take just what we need and our ego's don't require a full cooler to justify a day of fishing. Kind of makes sense to combine the commercial and charter industries together and let them divide the 51% TAC which would insure that the fishing industry can take their catch of 4.25% of the TAC each month of the year, that's steady money for them not feast and famine. The 49% allotted to the recreational anglers should remain as such because the recreational sector is constantly growing. Our seasons will be shortened and even closed in order to manage our marine resources. The fishing industry can continue to catch their share of the 51% TAC until that allotment is met.



Kim
 

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Kim, I agree, with a limited resource, one sector cannot grow without another sector losing shares. What I don't understand is why recreational believe they deserve more? At the end of 08 only 16% of Floridians possed a salt water fishing license. Why would16% deserve 49% of the resource? If you base the allocation onnon charter recreational fishing numbers the % should go down, not up. Remember, allFloridians (Americans) own the resource. Commercial and charter provide access to the 86% who don't fish for themselves.

Kim, no one wants to reduce the TAC for recreational!IFQ and SoSare based on historical catches. Recreational numbers would also be based on history. You wouldnotbe allocatedless fish, just what you normally catch.
 

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lbhuntley (11/4/2009)Kim, I agree, with a limited resource, one sector cannot grow without another sector losing shares. What I don't understand is why recreational believe they deserve more? At the end of 08 only 16% of Floridians possed a salt water fishing license. Why would16% deserve 49% of the resource?
Yea but the 49% of the resource is not just recreational fisherman on the florida gulf coast it includes AL, MS, LA and TX + FL combined.

mark w
 

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Mark, 70% of the recreational red snapper fishing occursoff of FL and AL, therefore sixteen % is probably high for all 5 states. Remember you don't simply add thenumbers fishing, you also must add the the total population that doesn't fish for themselves. Example: Population of 100 for each state/ 16 FL, 16 AL 10 MS, 10 LA and 10 TX have license/ 62/500 = 12% with a permit.
 

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LB,

What I have finally learned is that recreational anglers are exactly that "RECREATIONAL". We do not fight for our rights, we don't study the numbers, we don't get politically involved. None of that attracts toward the word "recreational". We just want to go fishing.

1. Recreational don't go to meetings and complain. recs are not going to fight. They just comply.

2. Fisheries management fails to see the recreational industries importance.

I am done getting worked up about it there is no point. Recreational is recreational. I don't blame people for wanting to avoid conflict with their choice of recreation. When they are shut out of the fisheries they will golf.

Mark W
 

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The main complaint is not the 51% or 49%. It is the TAC itself!!!! There is more fish out there than what the scientist are counting to come up with the TAC in the first place. The NMFS is using flawed data to come up with the TAC. Nobody wants to catch the last snapper,grouper,AJ, or whatever it is!!! I would support complete closures if the data is accurate, but it is not!!! If the fishery is in this much danger, then they need to shut down commercial fishing altogether, andgive all the "endangered fish" protection by granting them sport fish status.
 

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markw4321 (11/4/2009)

LB,

What I have finally learned is that recreational anglers are exactly that "RECREATIONAL". We do not fight for our rights, we don't study the numbers, we don't get politically involved. None of that attracts toward the word "recreational". We just want to go fishing.

1. Recreational don't go to meetings and complain. recs are not going to fight. They just comply.

2. Fisheries management fails to see the recreational industries importance.

I am done getting worked up about it there is no point. Recreational is recreational. I don't blame people for wanting to avoid conflict with their choice of recreation. When they are shut out of the fisheries they will golf.

Mark W
This is an absolutely perfect summation of what is happening. I just had to thank you for your post.
 

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Well, GOVERNMENT control at its best. Sure, red snapper has been over fished, but the commerical guys catch a lot more than we recreational guys. On the opening weekend of snapper season, there were probably 100 boat trailers at Ft. Morgan launch. 100 boats, x 3 per boat, x 2 snapper, = 600 fish. X 5 lbs,= 3000 lbs. Sure that is at one launch, one day, but it was the most busiest day of snapper season. A month later I saw 10 trailers at the launch. Did every boat catch their limit ? no,,Was every boat snapper fishing ? no,,,It is no secret, hotter it gets thru the summer, the deeper the snapper get. Some of us just do not have a boat big enough or feel comfortable enough to go out 15+ miles. So the numbers are over estimated. The NMFS probably estimates it by the # of boats, # of fishing licenses issued, and that everyone caught 2 snapper every week during the season. Lets see, this <U>year</U>, I kept 4, my son kept 7. Total of 11 snapper. 2 licenses, 1 offshore boat. That is probably lower end of normal, but it is normal. Not 30-10 pounders per person.
 

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I'm not as knowledgable on this subject as a I should be but there are a few things that get my attention. First is the comment about only 16% of Florida residents have salt water license. My question is what percentage of Florida residents have a commercial license. Likewise charter boat license. Lines have been drawn between commercial, charter, and recreational. Which group provides more for the economy? I don't snapper fish that much and one reason is because of the expense for 2 fish per person. I have never been asked in any way, shape, or form how many snapper I've caught.
 

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OK, we rec's caught ESTIMATED 4 million lbs, lets see, that is 4 million, divided by3 pound fish average= 1,333,333 fish caught. (average is 2-4 pounds)Divided by 70 day snapper season, = 19,048 fish caught per day, 7 days per week. Divided by 2 = 9524 fisherman catching 2 snapper every day. Divided by 3 people per boat= 3174 boats fishing 7 days per week.

OK, according to MRFSS there are 180 charter boats in Alabama, 1381 charter boats in Florida, In Alabama 29 are multi passenger. Just for fun, 1381 + 180= 1561 boats. X 6 people per boat, = 9366 fisherman that could be out on any given day on a charter. As you see above, that is close for # of fisherman. IF 100% of all charters run 7 days per week with 6 people & limit on snapper it would add up. But we all know that all charters do not run every day, some do not snapper fish, any ideas ?
 

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markw4321 (11/4/2009)
lbhuntley (11/4/2009)Kim, I agree, with a limited resource, one sector cannot grow without another sector losing shares. What I don't understand is why recreational believe they deserve more? At the end of 08 only 16% of Floridians possed a salt water fishing license. Why would16% deserve 49% of the resource?
Yea but the 49% of the resource is not just recreational fisherman on the florida gulf coast it includes AL, MS, LA and TX + FL combined.

mark w


This is absurd!!!! Here's the question

How can 16% overfish 49% of the TAC????
 
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