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Discussion Starter #1
This is liable to be misinterpreted as an attack on charter fishermen even though it certainly isn't meant to be, but I'll say it anyway.



Why are there not separate fish quotas/bag limits for the charters verse the true recreational fisherman?



I would argue the true recreational fisherman, "weekend fisherman", doesn't fish for profit nor does he fish as much as someone earning a living from the fishery, and as such does not have the same influence on fish stocks.



Also one source of catch data comes from reported charter catches, but on average I would bet the weekend fisherman isn't nearly as productive. However if big brother multiplies the charter catch numbers by the estimated number of recreational fisherman it will obviously produce an inaccurate result.



OK, maybe big brother's estimates aren't so simplistic, but why isn't their data, calculations and estimations publicly available to justify their position?



Open for discussion, but please let's be civil.
 

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i agree completely

i have nothing against charter captains but i dont see why they are labeled "recreational fisherman" when they are going out there and using the resource to make a profit.
 

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Sounds like the SOS plan to Me been working on it but haven't talked about it much here lately.

Catching to much Hell for it.
 

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kingling (10/21/2009)i agree completely

i have nothing against charter captains but i dont see why they are labeled "recreational fisherman" when they are going out there and using the resource to make a profit.
Because it is recreational fishermen that catch and take the rescource. The boat owner/operator simply drives them to the location for them to catch the resource.
 

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but still even though recreational fisherman are catching the fish

the captains are making a profit off of the fish
 

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In theory, the stock of fish belongs equally to all of us.:clap

Most charter boats cost around $150+ per hour, or $1200 for an 8 hour day. Divide this by 6, the cost will be $200 per day per person.

When fishing my boat with 3 friends, the average cost is $50-$60 each per day.

This would suggest thatthe averageprivate boater gets to spend more time fishing thanthe average charter customer.

Just because Joe Average doesn't own a boat, he/she shouldn't be pentalyzed on the amount of fish he/she is allowed to keep.

Sea-r-cy
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sea-r-cy (10/21/2009)Just because Joe Average doesn't own a boat, he/she shouldn't be pentalyzed on the amount of fish he/she is allowed to keep.



Sea-r-cy


Good point. I'm not proposing that he be penalized. But....



Do you agree Joe Average is likely more productive on a charter trip than he likely would be on his own boat? I'm not sure how you could disagree on that point.



So why should Joe Average's high charter fishing catch be considered Joe Average's average catch for the entire year?
 

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kingling (10/21/2009)but still even though recreational fisherman are catching the fish

the captains are making a profit off of the fish
The captains are not making a profit off the fish. They make a profit off rec anglers that pay them to take them fishing.

Any one who thinks owning your own offshoreboat is cheaper than going out on charters doesn't own a boat or can't do math.
 

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kingling (10/21/2009)but still even though recreational fisherman are catching the fish

the captains are making a profit off of the fish


I'm sorry but I make money taking people fishing, sometimes we don't catch crap, I still get paid. I have ran charters where we release every fish we catch, I still get paid. A few times it was too rough and we went shrimping, swimming, and bar hopping, guess what I still got paid. I have not made any money off of selling fish in over 15 years. The charter guys are in the entertainment business.
 

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kingling (10/21/2009)but still even though recreational fisherman are catching the fish

the captains are making a profit off of the fish
Nope, whether you catch your limit or no fish at all, you are still going to pay for the charter. They are making a profit on the service of taking you to the fish. They are in the service industry. You pay them for the service of taking you out on their boat. They do not sell a product. They do not sell the fish.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Back on the point...

You guys think the gov't catch estimates are correct?

How is the weekend fisherman's catch estimated?

You think it may be based on the charter catch to some degree?

Is the weekend fisherman as productive as a charter boat fisherman?

If he isn't than why is his bag limit the same per day, when he fishes less days per year at a less productive rate thereby having less impact on the fishery?



By the way I wish charter operators could get rich off the fishery. Their profit was not my point. The inaccurate total catch estimate is the point.
 

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Sea-r-cy (10/21/2009)In theory, the stock of fish belongs equally to all of us.:clap

Most charter boats cost around $150+ per hour, or $1200 for an 8 hour day. Divide this by 6, the cost will be $200 per day per person.

When fishing my boat with 3 friends, the average cost is $50-$60 each per day.

This would suggest thatthe averageprivate boater gets to spend more time fishing thanthe average charter customer.

Just because Joe Average doesn't own a boat, he/she shouldn't be pentalyzed on the amount of fish he/she is allowed to keep.

Sea-r-cy
dont forget to average in the boat pmt+ insurance+ sea tow/ by the number of trips per month. plus bait. if you want a fair comparison??I know you dont charge that to your guests but it is a cost.

back to the original comment, boat owners go 4- 12 times a month on average and charters go everyday possible with weather permiting. a charter boat with 24 spots for snapper is not the same as 8 boats with 3 angelers, the 8 boats dont fish it as hard!! I think that is the point trying to be made??
 

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You are arguing a data point. If you give a quota to each group, the data is still a problem. Right? You can definitely argue that the charter is much more productive. Be careful charter guys because that could be a nail in your coffin. If the data is as flawed as we think it is, then the charter guys might end up with a dozen charters a piece. I doubt each charter would get its own quota(how would you verify?), therefore the determination of whenthe groupquota is reached would be by survey. Then, "Live by the sword, die by the sword".

Chris
 

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Pay attention recreational anglers!!! The way things are going the charter boats who in fact do fish for profit ( they provide the license, bait, tackle and are suppose to have permits) will end up in the commercial sector taking along with them most of our TAC. Think about what our bag limits and season lengths will be then.



Kim
 

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A few of us were talking about the snapper bag limits this summer and one of my friends made an interesting point. He basically asked, "You ever think they would make the bag limits different for charter boats vs. recreational personal vessels?" He worked at a marina in Orange Beach and said often tourists would come back on a charter loaded down with so much fish they would try to pawn off fish on him cause they had so much they could not fly it or drive it back to where they came from and were just dumping it on whoever they could and even throwing some of it away in the parking lot.



I know people are paying to fish and they should keep what's legal but I thought it was kind of an interesting point. I think it would probably hurt charters though.
 

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you dont got ling, kingling and let me guess you dont support commercial fishing like some of your pier rat buddies do, you dont know shit and all you do is pier fish so none of this topic relates to you so keep your 2 cents to your self.
 

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I do believe that the data is flawed I believe that is one of the reasons you have a license for all salt water fishing. So they can have a more accurate count of fishermen.
 
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