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RANT - Vessels of Opportunity

5K views 35 replies 15 participants last post by  whome 
#1 ·
Every time I see that, "Vessels of Opportunity", my butt starts to climb up my back, my neck gets stiff, and I start grinding my teeth.

Could someone please explain to me, that if I make a living from fishing, or if I just enjoy fishing, and can no longer do that because of an oil spill, is it really an "Opportunity" for me, that I can now take my nice shiney white boat out and clean up frickin oil instead o fbeing able to fish. I guess it is supposed to be that BP is so generous in giving us the opportunity to try to clean up their mess.

I'm
 
#27 ·
Clay-Doh (14/05/2010)

My best advise to anybody though, is only go by what is in writing in the contract. If that says they'll pay, but rep at meeting says no, then go by contract.

<br style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: bold;">Well they did say you don't have to have workmans comp, which it says in the contract that you do...But I am with ya as skeptical, worst case scenario I have to just collect that claim for a few months, which they are paying atm.
 
#28 ·
I can tell you 100% the laws in the state of FL, AL, MS, and LA, you ARE required to have workers comp if you have any employees! TX does not require it.

Unless you 1099 your deckhand, (and then you dang well better make sure your deckhand meets the IRS guidelines as a subcontractor! You can go on the IRS website to see those requirements), he is an employee.

And the State of Florida WILL arrest you, even if you have workers comp, but you have an individual not yet listed on your payroll and caught on the job.

And almost all companies require you to have Work comp, or a work comp exemption on yourself if you do not have employees for them to cut you a check, otherwise there carrier charges them the applicable rate for any monies they paid you.

At the end of every year I am audited by my underwriter, and any subcontractor that I did not have a certificate listing me as additional insured, I would be charged for the amount paid out to them.

Also, We have called OSHA, and checked and rechecked the requirements for anyone who will becominginto contact with any amount of crude. You MUST have 40 hour HAZWOPER, not 4, 24, or anything else, but 40 hour, and it is the responsibility of the employer to provide that for employees. You are not BP's empoyee,(specifically stated also in the contract), you are there subcontractor. (Which I know BP said they would beprovidingthat. Verbally)

If any of you have ever dealt with OSHA, you know that is veryunpleasantto the pocketbook. In over 14 years I have been fined 1 time, and I learned my lesson.
 
#29 ·
The 40 hr Hazwoper is only required for the guys who are going into the "hot" and "warm" zones, you do not need the ANY Hazwoper to work with "weathered" oil, you need the MC252 Haz/safety course.

So unless you are a shrimper you do not need Hazwoper, and they (uscg,bp) only require 1 member of the crew to complete the course...they have pulled all the shrimpers out of the "invited" meetings and signed them up for paid 40hr hazwoper.

Most deckhands I know in the charter business get 1099, but this is not all about the charter business, like the adjuster said they are adjusting daily.
 
#30 ·
AS far as not needing the 40 hour for work with "weathered" oil, was that BP or the USCG that said that? The reason I ask is because that is an OSHArequirement, and talkingtothem, they made it clear they have not waived any of thererequirementsdue to this spill. Not trying to argue, just wondering where that info came from.

Andif your talking about deploying booms before it reaches here, then that really is no contact with haz material,whichwould require nothing. But if it is a skimming operation, where there is any crude, or any shore cleanupwhichinvolves contact, including areas with vapors, it requires, according to OSHA 40 hour. Here in this area then, for now, no, your right, there is no oil, so norequirements. The guys working the Chandler Islands though is a different story, and hopefully we don't end up that way
 
#31 ·
Clay-Doh (14/05/2010)I can tell you 100% the laws in the state of FL, AL, MS, and LA, you ARE required to have workers comp if you have any employees! TX does not require it.

Unless you 1099 your deckhand, (and then you dang well better make sure your deckhand meets the IRS guidelines as a subcontractor! You can go on the IRS website to see those requirements), he is an employee.

And the State of Florida WILL arrest you, even if you have workers comp, but you have an individual not yet listed on your payroll and caught on the job.

And almost all companies require you to have Work comp, or a work comp exemption on yourself if you do not have employees for them to cut you a check, otherwise there carrier charges them the applicable rate for any monies they paid you.

At the end of every year I am audited by my underwriter, and any subcontractor that I did not have a certificate listing me as additional insured, I would be charged for the amount paid out to them.

Also, We have called OSHA, and checked and rechecked the requirements for anyone who will becominginto contact with any amount of crude. You MUST have 40 hour HAZWOPER, not 4, 24, or anything else, but 40 hour, and it is the responsibility of the employer to provide that for employees. You are not BP's empoyee,(specifically stated also in the contract), you are there subcontractor. (Which I know BP said they would beprovidingthat. Verbally)

If any of you have ever dealt with OSHA, you know that is veryunpleasantto the pocketbook. In over 14 years I have been fined 1 time, and I learned my lesson.
<span style="font-size: 8.5pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Hello Clay and all concerned. I sent a copy ofthe BP VOOcontract to a Louisiana (oil service company) client, and he looked over the contract. What he told me is that if you are signing on with BP as a "commercial" charter or contractor, that NO WORK COMP is required because this specific section of maritime law is covered under the "Jones Act". A call to a maritime Attorney would be in order to make sure that the vessel owner has limited coverage for crew liability under this law. ALSO, he called around and checked with his "people" about putting a vessel for hire into the VOO program as far as vessel insurance, and he stated this. He COULD NOT FIND a carrier that would write vessel insurance for individuals in this program for two main reasons.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>

<span style="font-size: 8.5pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">1. The insurer has NO EXPERIENCE or case study or guidelines as far as potential vessel damages or mechanical issues when working under these conditions. I myself got an e-mail from Progressive (insurance on one of my boats) telling me to take caution with any potential conditions (oil spill) that might jeopardize the integrity of the original use of the vessel because they have no case study to base an underwriting and insurable interest in potential damages.<o:p></o:p>

<span style="font-size: 8.5pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">2. The insurers that he spoke with WILL NOT even consider writing a policy for use of a vessel under the potential conditions that they may be operated. Two (2) DID say that they may consider and evaluate an underwriting situation for a "fleet" of vessels (not sure what the term FLEET means to an insurer, 2, 10, 100, just not sure) that may be considering working the conditions of a spill........... Not sure all of you signing up for the VOO program have covered the vessel insurance issue with your policy writer, but I would certainly like to know more info and input on this........<o:p></o:p>

<span style="font-size: 8.5pt; COLOR: #1f5080; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">All of this info was meant to work within this post and I in no way meant to derail....... Tight lines, TB<o:p></o:p>
 
#32 ·
Well that is some good info Tom. That wassomethingI had not considered, the policy on the boat itself.

I do already have a quote for new policies for us because my current poilcies have Hazardous waste clauses. It is hard to find offered coverage with no EMR (Experience Modification Rate), which is some of what you touched on, that those doing this do not have a track record for this type of activities.

Thanx for the info on the Jones Act.

And any who know what proffesion Tom is in knows that this is reliable info.
 
#33 ·
Clay-Doh (14/05/2010)AS far as not needing the 40 hour for work with "weathered" oil, was that BP or the USCG that said that? The reason I ask is because that is an OSHArequirement, and talkingtothem, they made it clear they have not waived any of thererequirementsdue to this spill. Not trying to argue, just wondering where that info came from.

Andif your talking about deploying booms before it reaches here, then that really is no contact with haz material,whichwould require nothing. But if it is a skimming operation, where there is any crude, or any shore cleanupwhichinvolves contact, including areas with vapors, it requires, according to OSHA 40 hour. Here in this area then, for now, no, your right, there is no oil, so norequirements. The guys working the Chandler Islands though is a different story, and hopefully we don't end up that way
<span style="font-weight: bold;">No problem Clay, actually I appreciate your attention to the issue, everyone else is just waiting for their check...We were told this at the second meeting reps from BP and the training safety contractor is who explained it to us...Most of the people in VOO will not have contact with the hazardous oil, I guess "weathered" (their term) is what most of may be dealing with, the only guys going out to run through the "zones" (hot,warm,cold)...hot = ground zero... will be shrimpers. Made it bold as the quote tags arent working right.
 
#34 ·
Well I'm glad you didn't take me wrong or get irritated at me SuperSpook. Cuz as I said, that was not my intention.

I hope a good amount around here do get some checks. I know some of you all could use a pretty new durable metal roof...and with all that money you oughta give me a call for a bid!! Keep the moeny circulatin!!!:toast
If you can keep me posted on the outcomes, wether publicly, or by PM, I shure would appreciate it. If I have to eat crow and say I was dead wrong in a few weeks, I ain't above it.
 
#35 ·
Just come back from orientation they had at Dauphin Island. The spokesman theresaid {quote}That they will make ur vessel look the same if not better than it was before , you used it in the VOO or if not better> That they would DTOX it, if itcomes in contact with the actual spill.. He also said that it was hard on outboards and that they wouldn't let u leave unsatisfied with the conditions of ur vessel....Also trough in that , if yougot activated and did not have a GAPS, to pick one up and they would also cover the bill on that as well!!!

Boy talk about some serious PR !!

There were about 100-150 people in the meting to day....Way more that they had room for!!
 
#36 ·
jawbreaker (14/05/2010)Just come back from orientation they had at Dauphin Island. The spokesman theresaid {quote}That they will make ur vessel look the same if not better than it was before , you used it in the VOO or if not better> That they would DTOX it, if itcomes in contact with the actual spill.. He also said that it was hard on outboards and that they wouldn't let u leave unsatisfied with the conditions of ur vessel....Also trough in that , if yougot activated and did not have a GAPS, to pick one up and they would also cover the bill on that as well!!!

Boy talk about some serious PR !!

There were about 100-150 people in the meting to day....Way more that they had room for!!
I have to say that I am still concerned about this for a few reasons. It was explained to 100-150 people in pensacola 7 days ago by a BP rep that they WOULD NOT be responsible for your boat due to the oil. So we have one guy at one meeting saying one thing and another guy at another meeting saying another thing. As far as I am concerned that in it self is a NO, WE WONT FIX YOUR BOAT!

Also, I could be wrong, but I do not believe the contract I signed for the VOO program says that they will pay for your boat to get right if the oil affects it.

One other thing, So they decide they are going to make sure its as good as it was before the VOO program. So, say your not having problems with your outboard when the program is over and you assume everything is good with it. 6 months later you have problems due to the oil. Doubtful they will pay 6 months after the programs is over.

Please dont take this as complaining. I am just concerned that every BP rep gives a different answer to every question you ask them. As far as I am concerned, IF I happen to get activated I will do what they ask as long as I do not think it will damage my boat. If there is a chance for damage then I will not accept the trip, exactly like they said I could during the Pcola meeting...
 
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