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Hmmm....



Ross Perot.... = RP from Texas....



Now, Ron Paul = RP form Texas....



Didn't Ross cause problems by causing good republican votes to go to him and then Bill got in office? Could this be the same thing? Hell, I don't even know who else is running but I know that there is this Obama guy and of course Hillery.



I guess I need to start doing my homework on this!!! Thanks for the link!
 

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Will look for the link....but honestly, I have seen homemade signs only for this candidate including spraypainted sheets hanging on old deserted buildings and cheap handbrushed painted picket signs. I thought this candidate was for a local high school president. This guy does not have a chance without any funding for advertisements...not talking local stuff but nationally. Sucks but is true. I will visit the link and see what he is about tho. Thanks for the link.
 

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Well, the guy sure is consistent over a long period of time. He is the antithesis of all things Hillary, that's for sure. If nothing else, I'd sure like to see his ideas gain some legs

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #8
JustJosh'n (10/15/2007)Will look for the link....but honestly, I have seen homemade signs only for this candidate including spraypainted sheets hanging on old deserted buildings and cheap handbrushed painted picket signs. I thought this candidate was for a local high school president. This guy does not have a chance without any funding for advertisements...not talking local stuff but nationally. Sucks but is true. I will visit the link and see what he is about tho. Thanks for the link.
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx/?mkt=en-us&brand=msnbc&tab=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/&search=MSNBC&q=ron%20paul%20fundraising&submit=Search&id=11881780&FORM=AE&gs=1&os=10&fg=&from=00&vid=911a8242-d311-42e5-88ad-f54093eec58a&playlist=videoByTag:mk:us:vs:0:tag:News_Editors%20Picks,2:ns:MSNVideo_Top_Cat:ps:10:sd:-1:ind:1:ff:8A&wa=wsignin1.0

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=650 align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=700 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><CENTER> </CENTER></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width=430></TD><TD width=30></TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=200></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width=430><DIV class=post><H3 class=storytitle id=post-2313>Ron Paul Raises a ?Stunning? $5 Million for Third Quarter </H3>October 3rd, 2007 <DIV class=storycontent>

At the beginning of the second half-hour of Wolf Blitzer?s ?Situation Room? on CNN, he began with the news about Ron Paul?s third-quarter fundraising totals:<BLOCKQUOTE>

Some stunning political news this hour concerning Ron Paul: The Republican presidential hopeful is low in the national and state polls, but now, when it comes to campaign cash, he?s standing very tall.

Ron Paul?s campaign reports that the congressman from Texas raised five million dollars over the past three months. That?s in the same neighborhood as what rival John McCain is expected to report, and it?s five times what former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee reportedly raised. It?s also more than three million dollars more than Paul raised over the first six months of this year. Paul can partially credit his big bucks to a strong following on the Internet.</BLOCKQUOTE>

MSNBC?s Nora O?Donnell seemed astonished at the announcement.

ABC World News Tonight is flying to New Hampshire to interview Ron for tonight?s show. Earlier today, ABC called Ron?s totals ?jaw-dropping.?</DIV></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

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Come on guys. He's a kook.



Disband the CIA and the FBI? Really. Anything past that is all BS. When is one of these libertarians going to lose the crazy fringe stuff and just support reality.



He has so many good points, but others are just out there as if he was from outer space.



And, David, the "fair tax" is still a crock. Prebates..........................really? Why not just stick with what we have and revamp the tax code making it more reasonable and utilizing the system that is already in place?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
A 10 year old kid could figure out in about 30 minutes he's not a Kook:doh

He has a stellar 20 year record in Congress

=
 

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There is a lot about the guy that is very appealing, especially to a States-Rights Southerner. I hope he stays in the game long enough to at least make people discuss and consider the Libertarian point of view. Libertarians are quick to dress themselves in the cloak of Jeffersonian Democracy and particularly point to his writings to support an Isolationist foreign policy. Coming from a military family, and spending my adult life in uniform, I can certainly understand the appeal of not going to fight another war on the other side of the world. What they(Isolationists) forgetis that in Jefferson's time an enemy couldn't hit you from the other side of the world without a lot of advance warning. I am afraid the Libertarian utopia (If we leave everyone alone, theywill leave us alone) has no basis in fact in the modern world.

Doug
 

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Xanadu (10/20/2007)
And, David, the "fair tax" is still a crock. Prebates..........................really? Why not just stick with what we have and revamp the tax code making it more reasonable and utilizing the system that is already in place?
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Oh hell Hal you didn?t! That?s two beers now bucko! I lost my first diatribe to some error so this is the second attempt. To answer your question,because itwill eventually result in the same thing we have now.The Fair tax would actually use a lot of the tax collecting infrastrucure already in place.It would use and supplement existing States sales tax collection sytstems and provide a system or pay those states without such a system to implement one<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The current tax system we have is responsible for the impotent political state we find ourselves in today! As long as there is a ?tax code? that can be manipulated by legislation to benefit or extort corporations or individuals our government will be equally manipulated and extorted. Any attempt to revamp this system leaving a tax code in place will be equally subject to external influences via lobbying. The Fair tax takes most lobbyist out of the picture in one fell swoop. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The prebates are designed to avoid lobbyist influences as well. Simply giving each person or family a monthly check to compensate for the amount of taxes they would spend per month on the basic necessities of life negates beer breweries, toothpaste companies, bakeries, battery companies etc. from lobbying to gain tax exempt status on their products. The obvious benefactors of the prebate checks would be the poor. Basically they will pay no taxes unless they spend beyond the basic necessitiesof life. If the Fair Tax defined specific basic necessities of life items it would eventually be the same thing we have now and the lobbyist would control our government once again.<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The Fair tax will eliminate estate taxes, capital gains taxes, a multi million page undecipherable tax code social security taxes, income tax withholdings and most importantof all the IRS. No tax returns, audits, penalties and interest for simple mistakes. No more confiscation of assets or the need to hire tax attorneys or accountants just to pay your taxes. No more ?earned income tax credits? for those not ?earning? income. How much could one save toward retirement if they could take home 100% of their pay and their cost of living basically stayed the same? Sure, you would pay taxes when you spent the money, but there wouldn?t be tax penalties or even tax considerations when you decided what to do with it. Simple.<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The Fair Tax Proposal also addresses the Social Security solvency problem which no other plan I?m aware of does. What could be more fair than paying taxes only when you spend your money? Speaking of which, with the fair tax EVERYONE PAYS! Whether you?re a criminal, an illegal alien or a tourist, you will be paying taxes every time you spend money in this country. How many untold billions are spent by these groups alone each year?<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">With everyone taking home 100% of their wages we would see an immediate increase in spending and savings! This is a win win for all. The corporations and wealthy individuals with Billions in overseas accounts and investments would eventually bring those funds back into our economy once the threat of the tax burden is removed. Sorry for the rant but Hal pushed my button.:hotsun
 

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David Ridenour (10/20/2007)
Xanadu (10/20/2007)
And, David, the "fair tax" is still a crock. Prebates..........................really? Why not just stick with what we have and revamp the tax code making it more reasonable and utilizing the system that is already in place?
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Oh hell Hal you didn?t! That?s two beers now bucko! I lost my first diatribe to some error so this is the second attempt. To answer your question,because itwill eventually result in the same thing we have now.The Fair tax would actually use a lot of the tax collecting infrastrucure already in place.It would use and supplement existing States sales tax collection sytstems and provide a system or pay those states without such a system to implement one<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The current tax system we have is responsible for the impotent political state we find ourselves in today! As long as there is a ?tax code? that can be manipulated by legislation to benefit or extort corporations or individuals our government will be equally manipulated and extorted. Any attempt to revamp this system leaving a tax code in place will be equally subject to external influences via lobbying. The Fair tax takes most lobbyist out of the picture in one fell swoop. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The prebates are designed to avoid lobbyist influences as well. Simply giving each person or family a monthly check to compensate for the amount of taxes they would spend per month on the basic necessities of life negates beer breweries, toothpaste companies, bakeries, battery companies etc. from lobbying to gain tax exempt status on their products. The obvious benefactors of the prebate checks would be the poor. Basically they will pay no taxes unless they spend beyond the basic necessitiesof life. If the Fair Tax defined specific basic necessities of life items it would eventually be the same thing we have now and the lobbyist would control our government once again.<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The Fair tax will eliminate estate taxes, capital gains taxes, a multi million page undecipherable tax code social security taxes, income tax withholdings and most importantof all the IRS. No tax returns, audits, penalties and interest for simple mistakes. No more confiscation of assets or the need to hire tax attorneys or accountants just to pay your taxes. No more ?earned income tax credits? for those not ?earning? income. How much could one save toward retirement if they could take home 100% of their pay and their cost of living basically stayed the same? Sure, you would pay taxes when you spent the money, but there wouldn?t be tax penalties or even tax considerations when you decided what to do with it. Simple.<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The Fair Tax Proposal also addresses the Social Security solvency problem which no other plan I?m aware of does. What could be more fair than paying taxes only when you spend your money? Speaking of which, with the fair tax EVERYONE PAYS! Whether you?re a criminal, an illegal alien or a tourist, you will be paying taxes every time you spend money in this country. How many untold billions are spent by these groups alone each year?<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">With everyone taking home 100% of their wages we would see an immediate increase in spending and savings! This is a win win for all. The corporations and wealthy individuals with Billions in overseas accounts and investments would eventually bring those funds back into our economy once the threat of the tax burden is removed. Sorry for the rant but Hal pushed my button.:hotsun
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">DAM, I wish I had said all that!! :bowdown :clap :clap :clap
 

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Discussion Starter #17
LibertyCall (10/20/2007)There is a lot about the guy that is very appealing, especially to a States-Rights Southerner. I hope he stays in the game long enough to at least make people discuss and consider the Libertarian point of view. Libertarians are quick to dress themselves in the cloak of Jeffersonian Democracy and particularly point to his writings to support an Isolationist foreign policy. Coming from a military family, and spending my adult life in uniform, I can certainly understand the appeal of not going to fight another war on the other side of the world. What they(Isolationists) forgetis that in Jefferson's time an enemy couldn't hit you from the other side of the world without a lot of advance warning. I am afraid the Libertarian utopia (If we leave everyone alone, theywill leave us alone) has no basis in fact in the modern world.

Doug


Paul is not an isolationist, Please make sure your not misunderstanding, He stands for a policy of Non Intervention, (what the founding fathers of this country wrote in the Constitution and what this country was created from) Most of the conflicts we become entangled in are results of our intervention in other nations matters.....

Non Intervention and isolationist are not the same thing
 

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I think you'd be hard pressed to make that arguement. Non-intervention in a global marketplace of ideas and commerce is, in fact, isolationism. The ambitions of men not bound by a respect for humanity, left unchecked, will eventually bring them to our front door. By choosing not to fight oversees, you choose to eventually fight here.

Remember, a threat to Liberty anywhere is a threat to Libery everywhere.

Doug
 

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Discussion Starter #19
LibertyCall (10/21/2007)I think you'd be hard pressed to make that arguement. Non-intervention in a global marketplace of ideas and commerce is, in fact, isolationism. The ambitions of men not bound by a respect for humanity, left unchecked, will eventually bring them to our front door. By choosing not to fight oversees, you choose to eventually fight here.

Remember, a threat to Liberty anywhere is a threat to Libery everywhere.

Doug
Labeling Paul an isolationist, I would say is a falsehood

We disagree on that and the argument is simple.



Trade and commerce are not the same as meddling in other nations political affairs

Our intervention has increased the threat to liberty, not reduced it







Our country was founded on the ideas that Ron Paul continues to support



Both Jefferson and Washington warned us about entangling ourselves in the affairs of other nations.
 
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