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My questions weren't that hard to answer.

All you had to do is come up with a number. You keep laying out chin music that 50 is too small for G's but can't come up with any acceptable incentive number for either fish.
Should not need a incentive it's fun to shoot stuff go kill every damn on of them no one will be mad lol
 

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In my experience the numbers are going way down, not up. We don't see nearly as many of them as we did a few years go. I dove the tournament last October and we placed 2nd in the commercial division with 1500 or so fish. That was a loooooong day of diving with more dives in one day than should be mentioned here. Most of the fish were very, very small. As for taste, they are like crappie. No taste. They just taste like the seasoning you put on them. Not bad, but by no means worth the trouble and price you'd pay over the counter.
 

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oh, lawd, you say this is a she? all this time, from the posts, i had in my mind it was a dude.
jack
I think one of you guys may need to do the Dundee manuver to be sure.
Hat Jaw Gesture Flash photography Headgear
 

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In my experience the numbers are going way down, not up. We don't see nearly as many of them as we did a few years go. I dove the tournament last October and we placed 2nd in the commercial division with 1500 or so fish. That was a loooooong day of diving with more dives in one day than should be mentioned here. Most of the fish were very, very small. As for taste, they are like crappie. No taste. They just taste like the seasoning you put on them. Not bad, but by no means worth the trouble and price you'd pay over the
In my experience the numbers are going way down, not up. We don't see nearly as many of them as we did a few years go. I dove the tournament last October and we placed 2nd in the commercial division with 1500 or so fish. That was a loooooong day of diving with more dives in one day than should be mentioned here. Most of the fish were very, very small. As for taste, they are like crappie. No taste. They just taste like the seasoning you put on them. Not bad, but by no means worth the trouble and price you'd pay over the counter.
I'll stick with Crappie then. No spines on the crappie!!
 

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What you are basically saying is, 50 lions, or there about, should = 1 jewfish or a Goliath?
And you state the lions are eating the smaller jewfish and goliaths, which is decimating their population.
Am I following you correctly?

The only problem I have with your Theory is the lionfish are here to stay. Swapping breeding stock of jewfish and goliaths will not stop them. Doing so is nothing more than aiding to their extinction. You're killing them, and the lions eating their fry and small young = A guaranteed course for extinction of the Jewfish and Goliaths.

The best way to "try" and keep the lionfish in check, is to have a daily bounty on them. "Maybe" $1 each up to 50 lions, and $2 each over 50 lions. So, the bounty on 100 lions would be $150.

The State could open a couple of "Bounty Fish Houses" in each coastal county where the angler
turns in lionfish for cash. The lionfish are not returned to the angler or anyone in the anglers group.
Once the lions have been turned in for a bounty, the tails are cut-off immediately at the Bounty Fish House upon receiving a lionfish. Doing it this way, taking the lions from the angler (by bounty) will eliminate people from receiving bounty at one Bounty Fish House and taking them to another for a 2d bounty.
There will be No Bounty paid for lionfish with any portion on the tail fin missing regardless of cause, further reducing the criminal intent of circumventing the program.
After which, the House can then sell the lionfish at $1 per pound to anyone, including restaurants. Which helps curb the costs burdened by the State.

Also, any entity sponsoring lionfish rodeos with cash/prizes awarded, either the sponsor or angler(s) are still eligible to turn-in those lionfish to a Bounty Fish House for a bounty as stated above. So long as the tails are intact.

I think this would get more community lionfish rodeos going, and be somewhat State funded.

Is this the answer, maybe, maybe not, but it will give more incentives to get people actively involved in removing the lionfish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
What you are basically saying is, 50 lions, or there about, should = 1 jewfish or a Goliath?
And you state the lions are eating the smaller jewfish and goliaths, which is decimating their population.
Am I following you correctly?

The only problem I have with your Theory is the lionfish are here to stay. Swapping breeding stock of jewfish and goliaths will not stop them. Doing so is nothing more than aiding to their extinction. You're killing them, and the lions eating their fry and small young = A guaranteed course for extinction of the Jewfish and Goliaths.

The best way to "try" and keep the lionfish in check, is to have a daily bounty on them. "Maybe" $1 each up to 50 lions, and $2 each over 50 lions. So, the bounty on 100 lions would be $150.

The State could open a couple of "Bounty Fish Houses" in each coastal county where the angler
turns in lionfish for cash. The lionfish are not returned to the angler or anyone in the anglers group.
Once the lions have been turned in for a bounty, the tails are cut-off immediately at the Bounty Fish House upon receiving a lionfish. Doing it this way, taking the lions from the angler (by bounty) will eliminate people from receiving bounty at one Bounty Fish House and taking them to another for a 2d bounty.
There will be No Bounty paid for lionfish with any portion on the tail fin missing regardless of cause, further reducing the criminal intent of circumventing the program.
After which, the House can then sell the lionfish at $1 per pound to anyone, including restaurants. Which helps curb the costs burdened by the State.

Also, any entity sponsoring lionfish rodeos with cash/prizes awarded, either the sponsor or angler(s) are still eligible to turn-in those lionfish to a Bounty Fish House for a bounty as stated above. So long as the tails are intact.

I think this would get more community lionfish rodeos going, and be somewhat State funded.

Is this the answer, maybe, maybe not, but it will give more incentives to get people actively involved in removing the lionfish.
I think we agree that the current system isn't doing much.

Generally you are following correctly, except that the numbers here are starting/arbitrary, and I've suggested the same arrangement with Red Snapper either as AND/OR with an appropriate number for each.

You probably missed the posts where these are garnering $6-$10 a pound whole. Paying a dollar each isn't a credible incentive.

It's beyond obvious to anyone who actually goes in the water that neither reds or jewfish are even slightly "endangered."

Neither does the state at heart, as this year we have the longest season ever for reds, and 2022 the first time that Jewfish permits will be issued.

As of right now, no license is required to harvest lionfish. I wonder if that extends to selling them without the SPL. If not, it should.
 

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As for a "dollar" amount per fish or per pound, that's just a figure to show how it could be done.
Don't forget, Goliaths eat Lionfish too.

You do say lionfish are "garnering $6-$10 a pound whole".
Let's put that in perspective,100 lionfish could potentially earn $600-$1000. Spearing 100 a day is possible, which would roughly earn a person $4,200 - $7,000 a week or $218,400 - $ 364,000 a year.
And that's just if each whole lionfish weighed only 1 pound.
So double those figures if they are 2 pounds each.

If lionfish are bringing in this much revenue, why would there be an additional incentive of tags for a different species?
And if the food shortage gets worse as speculated, lionfish might go $20+ per pound as food demands heightens?

And $30 a pound for fillets? Wow there's a market here, you should corner it.
Oh I forgot, you also want Goliath tags for x-amount of lions too.
Brings to mind "have your cake and eating it too".

The goliath grouper population has rebounded and have been removed off the "species of concern list" but it's still prohibited to remove them from the water when caught w/o a permit.

The 200 goliath permit lottery which is slated to start in 2023 would be your better bet.
But don't take one under 24" or over 36" as that is the projected slot limit.
Hmm, $500 for a 36" baby goliath. That's a bunch of red snapper fuel there.

I'd like for my children and their children and everyone else's children to enjoy catching a behemoth Goliath and release it so their children can do the same thing years later and so on. It's called Conservation.

If 1 million goliaths ate 1 lionfish each per day, they'd be no mo lionfish within a year, maybe 2.

I just can't see where swapping an invasive fish for another fish is the answer. Cash is King.
 

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As for a "dollar" amount per fish or per pound, that's just a figure to show how it could be done.
Don't forget, Goliaths eat Lionfish too.

You do say lionfish are "garnering $6-$10 a pound whole".
Let's put that in perspective,100 lionfish could potentially earn $600-$1000. Spearing 100 a day is possible, which would roughly earn a person $4,200 - $7,000 a week or $218,400 - $ 364,000 a year.
And that's just if each whole lionfish weighed only 1 pound.
So double those figures if they are 2 pounds each.

If lionfish are bringing in this much revenue, why would there be an additional incentive of tags for a different species?
And if the food shortage gets worse as speculated, lionfish might go $20+ per pound as food demands heightens?

And $30 a pound for fillets? Wow there's a market here, you should corner it.
Oh I forgot, you also want Goliath tags for x-amount of lions too.
Brings to mind "have your cake and eating it too".

The goliath grouper population has rebounded and have been removed off the "species of concern list" but it's still prohibited to remove them from the water when caught w/o a permit.

The 200 goliath permit lottery which is slated to start in 2023 would be your better bet.
But don't take one under 24" or over 36" as that is the projected slot limit.
Hmm, $500 for a 36" baby goliath. That's a bunch of red snapper fuel there.

I'd like for my children and their children and everyone else's children to enjoy catching a behemoth Goliath and release it so their children can do the same thing years later and so on. It's called Conservation.

If 1 million goliaths ate 1 lionfish each per day, they'd be no mo lionfish within a year, maybe 2.

I just can't see where swapping an invasive fish for another fish is the answer. Cash is King.
As for a "dollar" amount per fish or per pound, that's just a figure to show how it could be done.
Don't forget, Goliaths eat Lionfish too.

You do say lionfish are "garnering $6-$10 a pound whole".
Let's put that in perspective,100 lionfish could potentially earn $600-$1000. Spearing 100 a day is possible, which would roughly earn a person $4,200 - $7,000 a week or $218,400 - $ 364,000 a year.
And that's just if each whole lionfish weighed only 1 pound.
So double those figures if they are 2 pounds each.

If lionfish are bringing in this much revenue, why would there be an additional incentive of tags for a different species?
And if the food shortage gets worse as speculated, lionfish might go $20+ per pound as food demands heightens?

And $30 a pound for fillets? Wow there's a market here, you should corner it.
Oh I forgot, you also want Goliath tags for x-amount of lions too.
Brings to mind "have your cake and eating it too".

The goliath grouper population has rebounded and have been removed off the "species of concern list" but it's still prohibited to remove them from the water when caught w/o a permit.

The 200 goliath permit lottery which is slated to start in 2023 would be your better bet.
But don't take one under 24" or over 36" as that is the projected slot limit.
Hmm, $500 for a 36" baby goliath. That's a bunch of red snapper fuel there.

I'd like for my children and their children and everyone else's children to enjoy catching a behemoth Goliath and release it so their children can do the same thing years later and so on. It's called Conservation.

If 1 million goliaths ate 1 lionfish each per day, they'd be no mo lionfish within a year, maybe 2.

I just can't see where swapping an invasive fish for another fish is the answer. Cash is King.
Yep and most spear fisher's don't take the time to kill one lionfish to busy chasing/killing the biggest fish on the spot. And I'm not knocking them I would probably do the same thing in there shoes. Same thing with hunting how many people pass the Yote\pig because they don't want to f up there deer hunt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #79 ·
Yep and most spear fisher's don't take the time to kill one lionfish to busy chasing/killing the biggest fish on the spot. And I'm not knocking them I would probably do the same thing in there shoes. Same thing with hunting how many people pass the Yote\pig because they don't want to f up there deer hunt.
Yeah, that's kind of the purpose of spearfishing.

When you are spearfishing you are targeting certain species most of the time. Reds, grouper, mangroves. It's when the spot is thin of those that you start thinking sheep, triggers, etc.....

Most spearos don't start thinking lionfish until further down the line when there's nothing else on the spot, or there's some kind of derby as stated earlier. I've never seen a boat go out and explicitly target them to the exclusion of everything else. It's because they are kind of a PITA to deal with and require special equipment. You need a different spear for them, a special container to put them in, and they have to be handled with extreme care, even after they are dead.

So if there's a fat gag sitting there, the choice is pretty clear.

I'm kind of intrigued by the lions at this point so if I can find spots that are thick with them I might just do that.

Shooting hogs is what I do in the winter. :) I don't even shoot deer.
 

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Emerald Coast Open Results
As I posted last week, our team participated in the ECO this past weekend which is the largest Lionfish tournament in the US. Just a little fact checking for the guys thinking this is a huge money making opportunity.

My team was 4 divers and we did roughly 50 dives in 2 days anywhere from 70-120 feet deep. Total number of fish collected was 382 of which we donated approximately 100 for raffle prizes. Donated fish were all under 6", probably 10 pounds worth. Total weight from the fish we sold was 194 pounds (I don't have a dollar figure until we get paid by the wholesaler) Most fish by a single team was 1623. Average weight over that many fish is going to be under a pound.

Assuming price per pound is $5 average, I'm looking at just under $1000 for the fish minus the approximately $900 we spent in fuel. Granted, I run a cat with twin 300s for my dive charters so it's not the most fuel efficient way to collect Lionfish. I suppose if I were retired and could dive whenever I wanted, collecting Lionfish would be a good way to offset some of the fuel expense, but as a full time sustainable business?? Not for me. We do it for fun. It's one of the few unregulated species with no limits and no season.

And finally, for the theory of let the Goliaths eat them. We hit 50+ spots and saw zero Goliath groupers. Did see some gigantic Red Snapper and Triggers though. A few triggers made have been injured this weekend too;)

p.s. If you're interested in Lionfish Hunting, send me a DM and I can connect you with some good resources.
 
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