mass. buoy relocate questionnaire

reelhappy · Feb 15, 2010

i got this email mail from the duke of earle. he sits on the emac. i sent it out to all the prfa members already. but thought you pff'ers would like to put some input to. it about the buoy's in our area if you had any problems navigating at night or day. i know some people have hit the mass in the daytime and others at night so if you want the buoy moved closer to it now is your chance.

Scot,
Please forward the attached questionnaire to our membership and ask them to
copy and mail their response soon. This is important especially regarding
the Massachusetts Buoy and relocating it to be on or right next to the Mass.
With any other comments they have. Thanks, Earle

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto

[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 8:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Monacelli, Nicholas LTJG
Subject: RE: Questionnaire for Pensacola Ship Channel

Hi Earle!

Thanks for the email. I have attached the Questionnaire for you.

Also, I will be out of the office from 28 Feb-28Mar and LTJG Monacelli will
be of assistance for any other questions regarding the questionnaire. His
contact information is below.

LTJG Nick Monacelli
Phone: 251-431-6933/251-680-8838
Email: [email protected]

Thanks for the help and we will greatly appreciate the input!

Deidre

ENS Deidre R. Harrison
USCGC CYPRESS (WLB 210)
Mobile, AL
P: (251) 431-6933
F: (251) 431-6934
D[email protected]



<TABLE border=0 cellPadding=15 width="100%" bgColor=#000000><TBODY><TR><TD>QUESTIONERRE FOR BARATARIA WATERWAY</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 Waterway Analysis & Management System

Questionnaire for

Pensacola Ship Channel (from Gulf of Mexico to Pensacola Harbor)

Including Navy Homeport Channel Name/Company: _________________________________________________________ Phone : _______________________ Contact Person:____________________________ Please use back of page if additional space is needed 1. Vessel used: Length:________ Draft:__________ Tonnage:________ Type:___________ 2. Navigational equipment used:___________________________________________________ 3. What is your principal cargo? (i.e. petroleum, sea food, dry goods, personnel)_____________ ___________________________________________________________________________ 4. What is your primary means of navigation during daylight hours? (i.e. Seaman?s Eye, GPS, Radar) _____________________________________________________________________ 5. How often do you transit at night during any given month? ____________________________ 6. What is your primary means of navigation during night hours? _________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ 7. How do you rate the Lateral Aids to Navigation system in the prescribed area? (i.e. Buoys, Lights, Daybeacons; Good/Fair/Poor)___________________________________ 8. How do you rate the Non-Lateral Aids to Navigation system in the prescribed area? (i.e. Day/Night Range Lights, Pensacola Lighthouse; Good, Fair, Poor)__________________ 9. Are tides or currents ever a problem? Y / N If so, where? _______________________________________________________________ 10. Have you experienced communication problems? Y / N If so, where? _______________________________________________________________ 11. Have you had problems with the current aids to navigation? Y / N If so, where? ________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ 12. Have you had problems with charts and pubs? Y / N If so, which? ________________________________________________________________ 11. Do you know of any specific danger/safety problems/issues? (shoals, hazards to navigation, etc.)________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ 12. What are your recommendations for improvements or adjustments?____________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________ Please mail your responses to, or contact: Commanding Officer USCGC CYPRESS (WLB 210) c/o Sector Mobile 101 S. Broad St. Mobile, AL 36615 Attn: ENS D. Harrison Email: [email protected] (w) 251-441-6277 (f) 251-441-6282

sealark · Feb 15, 2010

They will never move that buoy next to the Mass wreck. Simple reason is if it was next to the wreck everyone and there brother would use it for a mooring and that is against the law. It was proposed many years ago after another local charter boat ran into the wreck. Plus all the charts have it at it's present location. It would be nice for safetyBUT...

bonita dan · Feb 15, 2010

While noble,the questionaire seems more geared towards commercial and industrial fleets not the Rec.fisherman including the for-hire fleet. Also the Mass. and its bouy(a wreck marker) is not in Navigatable(sp.) waters which does not impede the progress of industrial and commercial fleets as well as the Navy so it is no hazard to them. Perhaps this could and should be taken care of by Escambia County Marine Resources to get this marker put back to where it belongs. Taxpayers lives could be in danger and we wouldn't want that to happen!

reelhappy · Feb 15, 2010

Perhaps this could and should be taken care of by Escambia County Marine Resources to get this marker put back to where it belongs.

esn deidre harisson uscg came to the ecmr meeting and this was talked about. i was not there.

earle was (the duke ) he sent this to me and ask to pass it on for surport.

you can bitch about and do nothing or you can take the time to fill it out.

and be part of the input needed to get stuff done.

the choice is yours

Play'N Hooky Too · Feb 15, 2010

sealark (2/15/2010)They will never move that buoy next to the Mass wreck. Simple reason is if it was next to the wreck everyone and there brother would use it for a mooring and that is against the law. It was proposed many years ago after another local charter boat ran into the wreck. Plus all the charts have it at it's present location. It would be nice for safetyBUT...

If that were theirreasoning for not moving it closer to the wreck then that is pretty lame. That would be like saying that filling in potholes only encourages people to speed.:banghead

choppedliver · Feb 16, 2010

alanbarck (2/15/2010)

sealark (2/15/2010)They will never move that buoy next to the Mass wreck. Simple reason is if it was next to the wreck everyone and there brother would use it for a mooring and that is against the law. It was proposed many years ago after another local charter boat ran into the wreck. Plus all the charts have it at it's present location. It would be nice for safetyBUT...

Click to expand...

If that were theirreasoning for not moving it closer to the wreck then that is pretty lame. That would be like saying that filling in potholes only encourages people to speed.:banghead

A bouy not near the object intended to warn about is retarded. And not putting it there because people might tie off to it, is more retarded. Thats what FWC is for, to enforce the laws. Besides, they should be happy they have one more thing to ticket us for and make more money

captken · Feb 16, 2010

I haven't fished out of P'cola since 1975 so I don't know how visible the Mass is these days. When I charterd out of P'cola, the best navigation system we had was LORANA. In 5 years of charetering there, I can't recall anybody hitting the Mass but we had to be more careful back then because of the inacuracy of the LORAN system or lack of a LORAN.

I can't imagine anybody hitting the Mass but folks hit channel markers and jetties every day. Unfortunately, electronics can lie occasionally. That is why we are admonished not to rely solely on GPS.

Likely, changing the location of the buoy would cause acidents rather than prevent them especially for those who fish the area only occasionally and don't read "Notice to Mariners." Until the buoy position is on built in GPS charts, there will be some confusion.

Travis Gill · Feb 16, 2010

I think it would casue more problems because everyone is used to where it is now and if moved closer to the wreck more accidents would happen

Buzzbait · Feb 16, 2010

Tell the "Duke of Earl" to caulk up another one for leave it where it is. The bouy and wreck are on the charts and we dont need our tax dollars spent on trying to fix stupid.

Play'N Hooky Too · Feb 16, 2010

captken (2/15/2010)I haven't fished out of P'cola since 1975 so I don't know how visible the Mass is these days. When I charterd out of P'cola, the best navigation system we had was LORANA. In 5 years of charetering there, I can't recall anybody hitting the Mass but we had to be more careful back then because of the inacuracy of the LORAN system or lack of a LORAN.

I can't imagine anybody hitting the Mass but folks hit channel markers and jetties every day. Unfortunately, electronics can lie occasionally. That is why we are admonished not to rely solely on GPS.

Likely, changing the location of the buoy would cause acidents rather than prevent them especially for those who fish the area only occasionally and don't read "Notice to Mariners." Until the buoy position is on built in GPS charts, there will be some confusion.

At this point nothing of the Mass. is visible above water. If you know it's there and are looking for it you can sometimes see the waves breaking over the west turret. Unless I'm specifically going there to catch bait I avoid the area altogether.

The way it is now somebody will eventually hit it and get killed and then we can have a10 page thread about how they should have known it was there and they deserved to die for being negligent boaters. I mean, really, who doesn't know that you are suppose to stay to the south of that bouy that's 300 yards off of thewreck that it was put there to warn you about. I just hope it is not sombody I know.

choppedliver · Feb 16, 2010

Freespool (2/15/2010)I think it would casue more problems because everyone is used to where it is now and if moved closer to the wreck more accidents would happen

If they put it right beside the wreck, like it should be, you would have to hit the buoy and/or the wreck, to have a wreck. And if you do that, you probably shouldn't be driving a boat.

There was a guy on the forum last year, posted a thread "what did i hit". There was a long drawn out discussion, but this is one example of someone on the forum hitting it because they are not familiar with the area. We can all debate "should he known", but fact is if the buoy was in the right spot, no one would need to "be familiar", any more than you need to know a stop light exists on Davis Hwy, or that a stoplight exist on any street in America.

Here is the thread

alle9219 · Feb 16, 2010

The bouy is meant to warn of a wreck in its exact location, that bouy is pretty far away from the wreck, that doesn't make any sense at all. If a CG ship comes through the area just pull off to the side for a few hours and move it to where its actually serving its purpose.

Its easy for folks like us to avoid it since we know where it is, but bring in a boater who isn't used to the area and doesn't have it marked on his gps and he'll hit it. Then what? You have a severely damaged boat, maybe a hurt or God forbid dead boater (or boaters) all because someone was too lazy to move a bouy 300 yards where it could *gasp* actually warn boaters of the location of the wreck. With all the money spent on the ships this would be a drop in the bucket and considering how much traffic the pass sees every year it should be a no-brainer.

DreamWeaver21 · Feb 16, 2010

I say get rid of the buoy all together and build a big ass sign with this on it right on top of the damn wreck. Or if you keep a buoy,have it be the correct buoy (not a red channel marker way outside the channel)and put it ontopof the obstruction. No questions then.

choppedliver · Feb 16, 2010

alle9219 (2/15/2010)The bouy is meant to warn of a wreck in its exact location, that bouy is pretty far away from the wreck, that doesn't make any sense at all. If a CG ship comes through the area just pull off to the side for a few hours and move it to where its actually serving its purpose.

Its easy for folks like us to avoid it since we know where it is, but bring in a boater who isn't used to the area and doesn't have it marked on his gps and he'll hit it. Then what? You have a severely damaged boat, maybe a hurt or God forbid dead boater (or boaters) all because someone was too lazy to move a bouy 300 yards where it could *gasp* actually warn boaters of the location of the wreck. With all the money spent on the ships this would be a drop in the bucket and considering how much traffic the pass sees every year it should be a no-brainer.

I was at the pass a few weeks ago. The coast guard buoy setting ship drove right past it. I thought the same thing. Wouldn't have cost them any more, they pass by it frequently. It's one of those things I can't believe there is really an argument about, or any dissenting opinions. It's a warning marker in the wrong place, so it warns of nothing. I got an idea, that speed bump sign on my street? Let's move it to a different street. That makes a lot of sense right? Speed bump warning signs on the wrong street? Yeah, that's what I thought too.

choppedliver · Feb 16, 2010

ATTENTION COASTIES, YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO REPRODUCE MY SIGN FOR USE ON THE USS MASSACHUSSETTS

submariner · Feb 16, 2010

Why isn't the simple answer "put a new bouy on the wreak"?

They have bouys that are marked to show wreaks>

choppedliver · Feb 16, 2010

Because the government doesnt do things that are simple. Everything has to be convoluted, overpriced, and defy common sense.

alle9219 · Feb 16, 2010

submariner (2/16/2010)Why isn't the simple answer "put a new bouy on the wreak"?

They have bouys that are marked to show wreaks>

They probably won't put a new one down because they'reworried theanchor might crush a red snapper...

choppedliver · Feb 16, 2010

choppedliver (2/15/2010)ATTENTION COASTIES, YOU HAVE PERMISSION TO REPRODUCE MY SIGN FOR USE ON THE USS MASSACHUSSETTS

Did no one like my beautiful artwork? lol:moon

Team Bloody Waters · Feb 16, 2010

Why is everyone attacking that poor buoy.....I say just move that little boat back to the buoy! See you can fix stupid!:moon

mass. buoy relocate questionnaire

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