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Discussion Starter #1
I am in a federal LEO supervisory position. i manage a certain location, 100 miles away from my supervisor. This past friday i lowered the stars and stripes, per federal law, peace officers memorial day, May 15 every year. my supervisor is claiming insubrdination because when i reminded him what day it was, and told him that i lowered our flag, he told me to put it back up, until he had approval from headquarters. i refused to put it back up and emailed a copy of the federal law...
was i insubordinate?
thanks
 

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Center Mass at 300m
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Every now & then even supervisors forget the regs. Federal law out weighs the knowledge of a dumbass. And yes, for the record, I've been put in my place by a knowledgable subordinate.

Move on and tell fk-up to get over it.
 

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I am in a federal LEO supervisory position. i manage a certain location, 100 miles away from my supervisor. This past friday i lowered the stars and stripes, per federal law, peace officers memorial day, May 15 every year. my supervisor is claiming insubrdination because when i reminded him what day it was, and told him that i lowered our flag, he told me to put it back up, until he had approval from headquarters. i refused to put it back up and emailed a copy of the federal law...
was i insubordinate?
thanks
If the boss says to do something that isn't going to put someone or something in harms way you roll with it. Should have just saved the info you had on the law for when the questions came layer because the flag wasn't lowered. And trust me somebody would have called, there are people out there who drive around on half staff days to ensure compliance. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with them doing that either, because the flag is flown that way for a reason.
 

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Why did you have to tell him about the flag? This a daily thing?

FWIW tho, he'll remember this incident, good or bad.
 

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You pick your battles. While you may be in the right, this guy is gonna have an infinite hard-on for you...……..
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Let me add this..the directive is actually written in our SOP, the flag is to be lowered on the designated lawful days declared by POTUS! Not only is this federal law it is in our own SOP!! I told him about me lowering the flag because im a good supervisor and inform him of everything. he is the definition of a micromanager and since he did not approve me lowering it, hes calling it insubordination. we have a meeting tomorrow so i will see if he is truly going to write me up. its laughable to me..i was doing what im paid to do, enforcing federal law and policy, but somehow its been spun into insubordination because of this mans ego.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Why did you have to tell him about the flag? This a daily thing?

FWIW tho, he'll remember this incident, good or bad.
no..but he failed to send direction to lower it..i reminded him and told him we lowered ours at my facility. he got upset and told me to put it back up.
 

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Let me add this..the directive is actually written in our SOP, the flag is to be lowered on the designated lawful days declared by POTUS! Not only is this federal law it is in our own SOP!! I told him about me lowering the flag because im a good supervisor and inform him of everything. he is the definition of a micromanager and since he did not approve me lowering it, hes calling it insubordination. we have a meeting tomorrow so i will see if he is truly going to write me up. its laughable to me..i was doing what im paid to do, enforcing federal law and policy, but somehow its been spun into insubordination because of this mans ego.
Id stand my ground if in the right. Screw the “Do as I say regardless “ mentality.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

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I’m sure you have SOP/SOGs that discuss whether an order from a superior is a lawful order and if not, whether it has to be followed.

4 USC 7 (m): The flag shall be flown at half-staff on Peace Officers Memorial Day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day.

if you get a disciplinary action I’m pretty sure your grievance appeal looks good.
 

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A superior is a superior, always say Yes. No matter what and it keeps you from crappy situations
I would never suggest something like this...pick your battles, but never become "the yes man". Im active duty in a supervisor role and yes you must follow orders and direction, but if it is wrong, unsafe, immoral, or there is a better way of doing things, it should be adressed, not just blindly followed. Leaders are not made from people that bow down and shy away from a little controversy. Now, there is a proper way to address things, and like i said before, battles must be picked
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I would never suggest something like this...pick your battles, but never become "the yes man". Im active duty in a supervisor role and yes you must follow orders and direction, but if it is wrong, unsafe, immoral, or there is a better way of doing things, it should be adressed, not just blindly followed. Leaders are not made from people that bow down and shy away from a little controversy. Now, there is a proper way to address things, and like i said before, battles must be picked
agreed!
it was wrong, immoral in my opinion, and most importantly its the law! active duty orders are one thing..civil service is another. hes a former OSI investigator if that tells you anything and cannot stand being corrected or challenged. i do not go out of my way to correct him but i have on occassion in private..he just cannot handle it
 

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Righteous and admirable, but at the end of the day you chose to lock horns with your boss. Good luck with the fight. Recommend you follow-up every contentious conversation, phone call, email, etc. with a MFR because he's going to play the long game to derail your career.
 

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[QUOTE="shtbrd1, I told him about me lowering the flag because im a good supervisor and inform him of everything. [/QUOTE]

You need to stop telling your supervisor everything you do. He may be a micromanager but sounds like you tell him way too much.

Take it from someone who knows, it’s better to beg forgiveness than ask for permission involving minor stuff.

Call FLEOA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Scout is correct in my opinion. When your boss is wrong, you have to make a stand or let it go. If you make the stand you have to be discreet, professional, correct and respectful. If he is as described, you may suffer for your actions. No matter how right you are, decisions have consequences. If he goes too far then you may have recourse. A good leader can accept their own mistakes. Unfortunately, Not everyone in a leadership position is good. But yes, you were insubordinate if you directly disobeyed his instructions. He may have been aware of something that you were not and you directly disobeyed. Good Luck and let us know how it goes.
 
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