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Discussion Starter #1
Its semi on topic so I will ask anyway, because I really want to know. With all the hoo rah about the RS and now the AJ crisis and all the complaining and conspiracy theories (the obamas fault aj closed is my personal favorite) etc etc I am alittle confused. I tried to air it out on the first AJ thread but turned into a little piss match so i removed myself from the debate. Riddle me this.



I was told when i first got into salt water fishing that if i am starting the hobby or w-e you want to call it for the "meat" , then i am making a mistake and should just go to one of the fish markets. you know with the cost of spending hundreds on bait (or bait catching equipment), thousands on tackle, hundreds in fuel, hundreds in snacks/beer/ice/etc, hundreds in missing a days work to go during a weekday, or thousands on a boat and or its maintenance.. or thousands on a charter. you get the point. So with that understood, the underlying reason and desire to spend all that hard earned money on the hobby is to just "get out on the water" and "fight some big fish"- and that filling up the boxes with "meat" is just one of the bonuses. And obviously no one that can afford to go out and get those fish is needing them to feed their family or anything.



So whats the big uproar about the 3 month closure? (unless you are a charter captain, i do get that).

It doesnt mean you cant go out and still catch and or target the fish and have a nice day on the water. It just means you cant stick it with steel and throw it in your cooler and kill it. All these people sooooo upset about it. There is a huge level of hypocrisy there. No one said you cant go fishing. And even with those closures there are still plenty of other fish to catch that you can also kill. "the man" is not "keeping you down" or trying to make recreational fishing obsolete. Maybe i just dont get it:doh
 

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OMEGA (10/21/2009)Maybe i just dont get it:doh
I would agree with that statement :poke

Bottom line is, the goverment will take, take, and take some more, but will NEVER give back. If the numbers were even close to what they say they are then it would be one thing, but the science is bad. This makes me wonder two things, why are they taking to begin with, and will we ever get back what they take? The answer to the second question is no, in case you are still lost....It really boils down to principle :letsdrink
 

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Discussion Starter #3
PLEASE dont take take this the wrong way. I dont see how that is an applicable analogy, at all. THats not even apples and oranges- that's apples and legumes. I dont see how its the same. IF it is agreed that people DO NOT take up serious salt water angling for just the "meat", then why the uproar when you cant keep some of the meat for a limited time. Go out, get on the water. Have a beer or redbull or w-e your flavor. Find and Fight the fish. Snap some good photos. Keep what you can when you can. Call it a day! at that you are still way more fortunate than MANY MANY people. But still gotta bitch. What you are referring to or making an analogy to i think is called getting 'skunked'. Thats a whoooole notha' issue there. And if it is about the meat it is avg of 5.99 p/ lb and i know where they have PILES of it! :letsdrink
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Water Hazard (10/21/2009)
OMEGA (10/21/2009)Maybe i just dont get it:doh






Bottom line is, the goverment will take, take, and take some more, but will NEVER give back. If the numbers were even close to what they say they are then it would be one thing, but the science is bad. This makes me wonder two things, why are they taking to begin with, and will we ever get back what they take? :letsdrink


Here is a very simple way to answer that question. It is common sense that numbers are decreasing. Look at the earths population in 1900. Now look at what it was in 2000. Now look at what it is now. Someone do a little google and please POST those numbers on this thread. There is your answer right there. They will continue to take because of the increased demand. And NO they will never give back. Its just a fact of life. My point is that you can still go catch them, and you can still go buy them. and that probably will not change. Atleast not in your lifetime. SOOO "quitcha bitchin"
 

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The question about getting back what they take away has already been answered in the redfish for which they took all but one away and said it would only be for alittle while. A zillion years later they are exactly where they were when they took them in the first place and it has been at least 25 years.
 

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Omega, you imply that gov't mandated catch and release only law should be acceptable to us recreation guys, since we ain't in it for cheap meat. Well I release alot/most of the fish I catch, but if I land a few nice red snapper, i'd like the freedom to keep a couple. And I don't want some statistician with inaccurate data samples and inconsistent assumption incorrectly calculating my impact on the fishery. Also if RS, AJ or any other fish is truly in danger of being overfished, i'll be glad to release all I catch. But please show me the data!
 

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Closure is what makes people angry. Fish is cheaper in the market but part of the enjoyment is eating what you catch.With everything that is happening to the snapper fishery people are fearful this will continue to more species and more closures.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
the data is there i assure you. THere is almost 6 billion mouths on this planet. There is your data. Who has posted the numbers on the forum about that. There will continue to be more closures and or restrictions. That is just part of it. THis aint ernest hemmingway days. Those days are OVER!!
 

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OMEGA (10/21/2009)
Water Hazard (10/21/2009)
OMEGA (10/21/2009)Maybe i just dont get it:doh


Bottom line is, the goverment will take, take, and take some more, but will NEVER give back. If the numbers were even close to what they say they are then it would be one thing, but the science is bad. This makes me wonder two things, why are they taking to begin with, and will we ever get back what they take? :letsdrink
Here is a very simple way to answer that question. It is common sense that numbers are decreasing. Look at the earths population in 1900. Now look at what it was in 2000. Now look at what it is now. Someone do a little google and please POST those numbers on this thread. There is your answer right there. They will continue to take because of the increased demand. And NO they will never give back. Its just a fact of life. My point is that you can still go catch them, and you can still go buy them. and that probably will not change. Atleast not in your lifetime. SOOO "quitcha bitchin"
I cannot argue the population number of people on earth today because I do not have those numbers. What I will tell you is that I have been fishing out of Pensacola for 30 years and the numbers of Red Snapper are UP drastically and the average size of these snappers are UP as well. Why can't the goverment take their heads out of their butts for one minute and listen to the people who are out there almost everyday fishing for these fish instead of rattling off numbers that are proven to be and admitted by some in the goverment to be bad science?

Fact is, if a fish is in trouble then by all means shut it down to provide more for our kids. Red Snapper are a bain in the butt because its hard to catch anything else but them sometimes.
 

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Omega,

I have not met you, or even know if you fish. I assume you do since you are on the PFF.

Look at it this way if you will.

You are a contractor, right. Okay, now you can do business any time of the week. Hey, the Housing market is down (they think there are low numbers of AJ's (like Snapper)). Stop all construction for 90 days. That will allow the housing market to have a rest if you will. It will raise the demand for housing (like there will be more fish?). Now, would you like it if someone "told you that you can not build anything for 90 days because of bad information, or some special interest group got involved?

The thing I think you are missing is that, we that fish a fair amount know better than what the "numbers" are telling the the decision makers. If there was a shortage of Snapper, we would not be able to fill the boat in a single afternoon, right? If there were not many AJ's, you would not catch any, or hear of any being caught, right. if there are no fish, the people would not be able to catch any right?

just a stab at this....
 

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Those days are OVER! Yep you're right. But when the snapper are so thick they began to destroy other species it's pretty obvious that the guys managing the fishery are making mistakes which ultimately hurt the overall fishery.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Realtor (10/21/2009)Omega,



I have not met you, or even know if you fish. I assume you do since you are on the PFF.



Look at it this way if you will.



You are a contractor, right. Okay, now you can do business any time of the week. Hey, the Housing market is down (they think there are low numbers of AJ's (like Snapper)). Stop all construction for 90 days. That will allow the housing market to have a rest if you will. It will raise the demand for housing (like there will be more fish?). Now, would you like it if someone "told you that you can not build anything for 90 days because of bad information, or some special interest group got involved?



The thing I think you are missing is that, we that fish a fair amount know better than what the "numbers" are telling the the decision makers. If there was a shortage of Snapper, we would not be able to fill the boat in a single afternoon, right? If there were not many AJ's, you would not catch any, or hear of any being caught, right. if there are no fish, the people would not be able to catch any right?



just a stab at this....


No we have not met before. i have met your brother, awesome guy. yes is do fish. but



a- this has nothing to do with me



b-this has nothing to do with omega, construction, or the housing market.



c- i guess they are trying to prevent it from becoming a problem before its too late. Kinda like taking vitamins or preventative medicines or vaccines. you know, to 'prevent' something, before it happens and the effects are greater. Like taking a shot of vaccines EVEN THOUGH YOUR NOT SICK lol. maybe, maybe not.



d- ALL that crap aside, he's right, she's right, i'm wrong.... Etc... What is the point of complaining. it solves nothing
 

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Omega you answered all your own questions..If you are going to spend all that money to go offshore like you said then wouldnt you want to come back with some meat?? Also I dont think its not about the man holding us down its about the man being WRONG about fish stock..
 

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OMEGA (10/21/2009)
Realtor (10/21/2009)Omega,

I have not met you, or even know if you fish. I assume you do since you are on the PFF.

Look at it this way if you will.

You are a contractor, right. Okay, now you can do business any time of the week. Hey, the Housing market is down (they think there are low numbers of AJ's (like Snapper)). Stop all construction for 90 days. That will allow the housing market to have a rest if you will. It will raise the demand for housing (like there will be more fish?). Now, would you like it if someone "told you that you can not build anything for 90 days because of bad information, or some special interest group got involved?

The thing I think you are missing is that, we that fish a fair amount know better than what the "numbers" are telling the the decision makers. If there was a shortage of Snapper, we would not be able to fill the boat in a single afternoon, right? If there were not many AJ's, you would not catch any, or hear of any being caught, right. if there are no fish, the people would not be able to catch any right?

just a stab at this....
No we have not met before. i have met your brother, awesome guy. yes is do fish. but

a- this has nothing to do with me

b-this has nothing to do with omega, construction, or the housing market.

c- i guess they are trying to prevent it from becoming a problem before its too late. Kinda like taking vitamins or preventative medicines or vaccines. you know, to 'prevent' something, before it happens and the effects are greater. Like taking a shot of vaccines EVEN THOUGH YOUR NOT SICK lol. maybe, maybe not.

d- ALL that crap aside, he's right, she's right, i'm wrong.... Etc... What is the point of complaining. it solves nothing
okay, I tried to explain (help), thought you may see it in a different light (situation). Guess not. have a good evening. Good luck.
 

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What's the point of complaining? You ask this in a free society where gov't should represent the people? We better complain. We better make damn sure we complain, when we even think we see injustices performed by gov't. Oh maybe I should just sit back and let them take my gun so I don't shoot myself in the foot one day. Or shut up and wear my helmet. Or shut up and let them send all the good jobs overseas. Or let them wipe out the local farmer or fishermen. Ok I'm done. But only for the moment.
 

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i agree we should not keep fish fish we catch, i also think we should be taxed on on the air we breath, and all fall in line and be herded like sheep, and beware the globe is warming
 

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no one would question the closure if we reported what we caught. (like deer hunting in a management area) other than poaching, they know precisely how many deer are harvested each year. however, this could never happen with fishing in the gulf. the problem lies in the fact that no one knows where these scientists are getting their figures. if you can explain to us how they can give us an exact number (in poundage) on the harvest so far in 09 on sanpper and aj's then you'll have answered your own question. i dont think anyone's crying in their beer over the illustrious amberjack making an abscence from the fishbox till jan 1. it's more of a state of confusion on wtf are these guys talking about? overfished amberjack and snapper? seriously? its like a bad joke. but the bad jokes on us.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Dylan (10/21/2009)Omega you answered all your own questions..If you are going to spend all that money to go offshore like you said then wouldnt you want to come back with some meat?? Also I dont think its not about the man holding us down its about the man being WRONG about fish stock..


did you read what i wrote to start with? im not trying to argue with everyone, i just wanted to see what was the big freggin deal. I said in my original post that coming back with meat is SUPPOSED to be a bonus. That the joy of the sport and being on the water is the true fulfillment. So to answer your question, No. If i get skunked thats one thing but if i catch fish then thats ok. meat is just a bonus. Trust me dude I have spent thousands going out there, meat or not. Last year I bought around 10 pounds of cobia fillets that cost me $2,000 bucks in one weekend. And i wasnt even 'offshore'!! :hoppingmad
 

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No one is going to win this argument. We all are deserving of accurate stock assessments when it comes to managing our resources. It's like banging your head into a wall because someone's computer has had some bad data put into it and says there are no fish when they are there in numbers not previously seen. The people making the call should look at the stocks as they are in the wild and then determine if their conclusions are right before going so far as closing a fishery. I don't think anyone would have any problems saving any species of fish that are endangered.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
SUNDAY-FUNDAY (10/21/2009)

no one would question the closure if we reported what we caught. (like deer hunting in a management area) other than poaching, they know precisely how many deer are harvested each year. however, this could never happen with fishing in the gulf. the problem lies in the fact that no one knows where these scientists are getting their figures. if you can explain to us how they can give us an exact number (in poundage) on the harvest so far in 09 on sanpper and aj's then you'll have answered your own question. i dont think anyone's crying in their beer over the illustrious amberjack making an abscence from the fishbox till jan 1. it's more of a state of confusion on wtf are these guys talking about? overfished amberjack and snapper? seriously? its like a bad joke. but the bad jokes on us.


this is the only intelligent response i have heard to the whole thing. :clap
 
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