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Discussion Starter #1
http://sero.nmfs.noaa.gov/quotas/grouper_tilefish/grouper_tilefish_landings.htm





Gulf of Mexico Reef Fish Commercial Landings (gutted weight in pounds)





2008 2009



Shallow Water Grouper Quota 8,800,000 7,480,000

Catch 5,716,721 3,794,848

Catch % 64.96% 50.73%



Red Grouper Quota 5,310,000 5,750,000 * December 2009 data not included

Catch 4,281,241 3,051,535

Catch % 80.63% 53.07%



Gag Grouper Quota No Data 1,320,000 *December 2009 data not included

Catch 536,173

Catch % 39.86%



Deep Water Grouper Quota 1,020,000 1,020,000

Catch 1,083,027 1,030,661

Catch % 80.63% 100.97%

Closed May 2008 Closed June 2009



Tilefish Quota 440,000 440,000

Catch 460,031 488,722

Catch % 105.92% 111.07%

Closed May 2008 Closed May 2009



Greater Amberjack Quota 503,000 503,000 * Closed October 24, 2009

Catch 412,516 567,020

Catch % 82.01% 112.73%



Gray Triggerfish Quota 80,000 93,000 * December 2009 data not included

Catch 48,829 46,908

Catch % 61.04% 50.44%





these are the numbers from the NOAA site listed above. Draw your own conclusions. I highly doubt that the commercial fleet has been practicing catch and release to end up with those catch numbers nor was it from lack of effort on their part.
 

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kim...what i take from this post from you that because the commercial fleet did not catch its quota our fisheries are in decline? is this correct?



also it seems as if you look at NOAA as the best science and data we have out there...is this correct?
 

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this is a lose-lose situation...Too Many fish are caught in one year and the fish are being overfished so they shut the season down. Not enough fish are caught and the fish are becoming extinct so they shut the season down....:banghead
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wes until they day that you or anyone else can have NOAA accept your data concerning our fisheries, their data remains the only game in town because that is what they use to set seasons and bag limits. I also think the numbers do indicate a trend, and by trend analysis alone it indicates a reduction in numbers.
 

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kim...lets go with NOAA's numbers...they say as long as the commercial sector does not exceed the quota then the fishery is not being over fished. remember this is their numbers and science to help the recovery from over fishing. now looking at your numbers shows that the catches were not that far off the quota...taken in the economy...tides...weather and the fact that mother nature plays a roll in there. it looks as to me the fishery is in good health and the commercial interests caught less than what NOAA said they could catch which means more fish left to help the recovery.



So i guess no need for tighter regulations. So kim the next time you go bottom bumping feel free to keep an extra fish for your fish fry!!!!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wes that same logic can be applied to say that the commercial fleet couldn't catch their quota because the numbers of fish just aren't there to catch in the first place. The commercial fleet didn't have any problem going over quota on the species they did at which times the fishery was closed. If my opinion was asked, I'd have to say those under quota fisheries need to be evaluated and seasons and bag limits be adjusted accordingly to ensure a sustainable fishery.



Narrow vision and poor management of our fisheries could possibly put the Gulf of Mexico fisheries in the same boat as the SE Atlantic region. In 2007 they knew that they had problems but the commercial interests on the council precluded taking responsible action and two years later the fisheries concerned are either closed or severely restricted. So to keep the commercial guys happy NOAA gave 97% of a fishery to them leaving the recreational anglers with 3% of the Tile Fish TAC. That's based on catch history, so it is a possibility that if the same doom descended upon the Gulf of Mexico, The council could give high percentages of available fisheries to the commercial fleet, leaving the scraps for the recreational anglers.



I would rather err on the side of caution rather than excess. As long as the seasons and bag limits allow recreational anglers to catch fish each year, I'm satisfied. That's why I promote conservation, seasons and bag limits that ensure a sustainable resource fishery. Recreational anglers fish for fun not money and I sure like to have fun every year.
 

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Try to find the commercial numbers from a few years prior, maybe 10, try 20. See how they match up. Nobody's catching any less fish, they just don't catch an unreasonably high quota that was set by a commercial-minded panel.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Looking at the numbers they sure didn't have any problems with Greater Amberjack, Tile Fish and Deep water Grouper. For me it's hard to imagine the commercial fleet not taking every single fish they possibly can, it's all money in the bank. At least if Grouper pop up as an issue, it may take the place of Red Snapper as a topic of debate.
 

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The reason the commercial fleet didn't meet the shallow water grouper quota is becuase they pushed the longliners out past 60 fathoms (or something like that) because they were killing sea turtles. They shut down the means by whicha large segmentof the fleetwere grouper fishing,meaning the shallow water grouper were only fished by the bandit fishermen.
 

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P-cola_Native (1/2/2010)The reason the commercial fleet didn't meet the shallow water grouper quota is becuase they pushed the longliners out past 60 fathoms (or something like that) because they were killing sea turtles. They shut down the means by whicha large segmentof the fleetwere grouper fishing,meaning the shallow water grouper were only fished by the bandit fishermen.
I had forgotten about all that.

So the the effort has changed, not the stocks. Bet they still try to use the numbers to cut TAC.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I had read about the long line rule change but I didn't know that it resulted in the reduction of the commercial catch. A perfect example why a forum is a place to share ideas, it's a place to learn as well.
 

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Kim (1/1/2010)Tim I rarely resort to harsh language, but I will make an exception for you. I have never met you or spoken to you to the best of my knowledge and I never left a message for you, with your mother, whom I'm sure taught you not to tell lies. All that does is tell me that when you have to resort to telling lies about people, you have nothing worthwhile to say.
I have removed what i said about Kim from yesterday it was a mistake in idenity and i'm sorry i ever spoke. Kim is not the Kim that did us wrong and for that i publicly want to say sorry for what i said.

TIM
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Tim mistakes happen sometimes and it takes a real man to admit that. You and your dad are still the Grouper Guru's in my book. I also apologize for the post I made in rebuttal to yours, it was totally uncalled for, I should have ascertained all the facts first. I'm sorry that someone did you and your Dad wrong with your boat repairs and I'm even sorrier that the scoundrel has my name!
 
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