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Hook (11/2/2009)Start witting your congressman , local and state politicians, Then start calling up these offices and ask questions ect ect. It works better than bitching. Action speaks louder than words.
Aleady been doing it. The ONLY response I got was from Gaetz. He said it is not in his control, but he is bringing pressure to bear with Crist.

The congress is tonedeaf too. Too busy with healthcare reform to worry about a little thing like snapper.

That is why a lawsuit is so appealing. Bypass the whole congress and padded pocket politician. Go straight to someone who can put in an injunction and FORCE them to follow the law, which NMFS is not doing...
 

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enviro3 (11/2/2009)I eat protein I buy from the store - mainly chicken. But i am really concerned about fish stocks that's why i am catch and release only.

pete


so if you went fishing with me, and we caught some white trout, of which there are millions, and no limits, and we went home and cooked them up nice and crispy, you would not eat them?
 

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-=Desperado=- (11/2/2009)Also organizing a blockade or anything like that on the bridge or anywhere is plain selfish and irresponsible.What if someones mom or kid died in an ambulance sitting in this blockade or visa versa.I still think you guys need to get ALL YOUR FACTS together before you make this attempt but thats just me
Will has a good point here. Besides, I know that if you back traffic up in the left lane, you can get a ticket for obstructing traffic. So guess what you get if we all tow boats at minimum speed across the bridge, the guys in the left lane will get tickets for obstructing traffic. I like Realtor's idea of taking up all the parking around city hall with the boats. What would it cost you for three meters for 4 hours? 4.50? And you wouldn't have to move because you paid for the rght to be there. We could also have a tailgate breakfast/brunch in the parking lot.
 

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I may be crazy for doing so, but I have been inviting as many Discovery and Scientific shows down here to debunk the myth of the dissappearing Snapper. I have written letters to the shows and asked them to do their own research since the recreational fisherman does not have the econimic wearwithall to conduct massive studies like the state and federal government does. I was hoping to get some real third party statistics that would either be in our (recereational fishermen) favor or not. At least it would be another study to look at. I agree that a protest would get some attention, but it is important to make sure we get the right people's attention.I am for standing up for my rights, but likeshe always says, sometimes it is quality, not the quantity.

Chris
 

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Chicken...now there is one nasty motherhumper that will never be depleted. Hey Angus tell em' about chicken hatcheries...oh wait Im derailing...

Anyway I know a dock in Perdido Key that may could allow some signage? Since it has a flotilla around Mardi Gras maybe we could protest there? I dunno I like Mikes Idea of signs on 3 mile!
 

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I will tell you what would be great.

We could get Al Gore to go and write/film "An Inconveniant Snapper" where we would go out and film snapper being caught and film them underwater.

That would be helpful. It would bring it into perspective. The NMFS has total disregard for what is going on off the shore of the florida panhandle.

I remember seeing a film on the net a few months ago. Seems like one of the members had made it? Anyone remember that?

I will search for it......
 

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Discussion Starter #67
here is an ad that will be posted in the destin, ft walton, pensacola, and panama city papers this week. READ the ad and you see that the issue of sos/pri/rec/com/for-hire, is not mentioned. The protest that are being done on Saturday off destin, Panama city, mexico beach and any other place are being done to bring attention to what the problem is; THE OVERLY RESTRICTIVE OVERFISHING REGULATIONS, which only congress can fix by relaxing the current law. As I have said here at the beginning, everyone needs to set aside the issues that are dividing us and stand together as one voice. If the law is not changed there will be no fishing for anyone so division won't matter.

The current overly restrictive overfishing requirements are affecting every fisherman equally as we are all being hit with closed seasons, lower bag limits, and other restrictions. No one will survive if the law isn't changed.

We suggest that if you are willing to get on the water on Sat from 10am to noon that you do so in areas with large visibility from the public. Create signs to display that bring attention to the problem. I have sent emails to many in pensacola with suggestions. Maybe some one can post them here or send them to you.

Today the protest began in ft walton on hy 98. many recreational for-hire guys, pri/recreational guys, business people lined the street with signs and the nbc tv channel here in pc, wjhg, covered the event. You can go to wjhg.com and view the event. We are looking for a more wide spead coverage on sat, and the more areas involved the more impact it should have.

Similar events are being done on the east coast. The governors of all 5 gulf states have written letters to the secretary of commerce expressing concern over the severe restrictions. 4 jointly signed a letter and crist did his own. Everyone can thank state senator gaetz for his help with crist.<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">RALLY FOR RECREATIONAL ANGLERS AND FLOTILLA<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>[/B]<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal align=center>Flotilla begins Saturday, November 7th at 10:00 am at the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placeName w:st="on">Destin</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType w:st="on">Bridge</st1:placeType></st1:place> followed by a rally, public forum and fish fry!<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal align=center><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>The Destin fishing community and the Destin Charter Boat Assoc. is organizing a rally and flotilla to gather recreational anglers and the businesses that depend on the fishing community, to send a clear and loud voice to our US Congress that the future and fate of many thousands of American families lies in their action or inaction.<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>Congressmen ********* and Congressman*********, we need your help NOW!!!<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>We are calling on fishermen and supporters from the entire <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placeType w:st="on">Gulf</st1:placeType> <st1:placeType w:st="on">Coast</st1:placeType></st1:place> to join us in Destin or in your own home port and send a message to your congressmen that we must have their help to survive!<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal>Recent changes in the <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: TimesNewRoman; mso-bidi-font-family: TimesNewRoman">revised Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act (MSA), are having crushing consequences in our fishing communities, across our state and along all coastal states. The NMFS still continues to use a antiquated and ?fatally flawed? data collection system to try and track fish being caught and landed by recreational anglers even though they have been mandated by the same MSA to implement new data collection methods.<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>"Their survey has been called 'fatally flawed' by the chairman of the committee that reviewed it for Congress, yet they still use it," said Bob Shipp, president of the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council.<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">Not only do they use this system to try and track fish being caught, they also base part of their stock assessment data on it!<o:p></o:p>[/B]<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><o:p></o:p>[/B]<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>The Fishing Community has worked with, pleaded to and fought against the NMFS over obvious flaws in the data collection system and the outdated stock assessments and we continue to get nowhere! At this point only relief and flexibility on the congressional level can help our fishing communities stay alive and viable.<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>Long term, sustainable fish stocks that support healthy fishing communities is and always have been the goal of the fishing community and that is the direction our fisheries are heading. Fisheries management is needed and wanted to continue the rebuilding process, but it must be balanced with common sense and the long term sustainability of the fish stocks and the fishing communities that rely on them.<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>NMFS has failed repeatedly to implement a new data collection system or account for all salt water anglers, but yet at the same time have implemented harsh new restrictions based on recreational anglers over-fishing their quota. It does not make sense, nor does it pass the smell test and Congress MUST INTERVENE NOW to stop the madness that is crushing our coastal fishing communities and the businesses that rely on them.<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>The issue must be addressed immediately! Funds must be allocated for data collection and current stock assessments. Flexibility must be apart of our fisheries management while these new management tools are implemented. ONLY OUR CONGRESSMEN can intervene and help us at this point!<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>WE NEED FLEXIBILITY AND WE NEED HR1584 AND S1255 AMENDED WITH THIS LANGUAGE: <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the reef fish fisheries in the Gulf of Mexico and South Atlantic shall not be required to be rebuilt, and over-fishing ended, by a specific date provided that the annual level of fishing does not exceed the net reproduction rate for that fishery such that the fishery is rebuilding each year. If the objective set forth in this section is not met for any of the Gulf of Mexico and <st1:place w:st="on">South Atlantic</st1:place> reef fish fisheries in one year, the Secretary of Commerce shall adjust the fishing<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"> <SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">rate in that specific fishery in subsequent years to compensate for any overage.<o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>In our nation?s history, citizens have had to stand up and fight for their rights and for WHAT IS RIGHT for over 200 years. Women did not have the right to vote or hold office until the citizens of this country stood up for what is right. The passage of the Civil Rights bill would never have happened had not citizens across our country come together to fight for WHAT IS RIGHT!!<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal">COME JOIN OUR FLOTILLA AND OUR RALLY FOR RECREATIONAL ANGLERS[/B].<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>It will be a peaceful and respectful assembly of recreational fishermen and women, the businesses that rely on and support the fishing community and supporters of the fishermen to stand together for WHAT IS RIGHT!<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">The flotilla will assemble in the <st1:placeName w:st="on">Destin</st1:placeName> <st1:placeName w:st="on">East</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType w:st="on">Pass</st1:placeType> near the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placeName w:st="on">Destin</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType w:st="on">Bridge</st1:placeType></st1:place> on Saturday, Nov 7<SUP>th</SUP> at 10:00 am for 2 hrs To be followed by a rally and public forum at the Destin Fishermen?s Co-Op from 12:30 to 2:00 pm.<o:p></o:p>[/B]<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">We will have contact information and literature available for you to contact your congressmen and representatives.<o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">We must have their support and commitment to pass this legislation.<o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Their will be a fish fry and celebration hosted by the City of <st1:City w:st="on">Destin</st1:City> as part of Destin?s 25<SUP>th</SUP> anniversay celebration on the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placeName w:st="on">Destin</st1:placeName> <st1:placeType w:st="on">Harbor</st1:placeType></st1:place>.<o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p><P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">COME JOIN OUR FLOTILLA!!<o:p></o:p>[/B]<P style="TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p>[/B]<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">For info on the rally and how you can help, please email [email protected]<o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>Many businesses and individuals have contributed to this message and our cause, we are grateful to them for their continued support and concern for the future of the Destin Fishing Community and their own local communities that rely on the recreational fishermen and divers.<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal>They include:<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p>
 

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Bob

How does the statement below require NMFS to do anyhing different under the law? Understand it relaxes the date, but doesn't the rest of the sentence mean that if NMFS says we overfished it negates the time requirement.

NMFS needs to count the fish on artificial reefs in their data collection. could that requirement be part of the amendment as well?

"shall not be required to be rebuilt, and over-fishing ended, by a specific date provided that the annual level of fishing does not exceed the net reproduction rate for that fishery such that the fishery is rebuilding each year. "



Mark W
 

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Discussion Starter #69
This legal language drafted by George Mannina, the dc lobbyist hired by obfa a couple years ago. George was one of the original drafters of the original MSA in 1976 so he is well versed in the act. It was vetted among some key commercial and recreational reps who agreed to the languageand basically would allow the nmfs and councils to take the approach that as long as a fishery wasimproving, regardless if it was undergoing overfishing, that restrictions would not have to be so severe. It would provide the councils the ability to monitor the fisheries and allow fishing as long as the fishery kept improving toward the goal of being not overfished. If the harvest for any year was determined to be preventing the fishery to achieve not overfished or if an enviromental problem affected the fishery so that the biomass was reduced, then the council could take more restricitve measures.

Essentially the language is legaleze for use the stairs vs an elevator to get to the top.
 

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just a reminder .... red fish caught in federal waters is STILL illegal to keep ...... how long ago was that inacted ???
 

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Folks again I ask you not to support the commercial interest with a show of solidarity. By doing so you will only help them take away from the recreational sector which is growing annually. We need to keep the 49% TAC for all marine resources alloted to the recreational sector. Let the charter boats go commercial and then the commercial and charter interests can divide up the 51% TAC already alloted for the commercial fishing industry.



Kim
 

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Kim (11/3/2009)Folks again I ask you not to support the commercial interest with a show of solidarity. By doing so you will only help them take away from the recreational sector which is growing annually. We need to keep the 49% TAC for all marine resources alloted to the recreational sector. Let the charter boats go commercial and then the commercial and charter interests can divide up the 51% TAC already alloted for the commercial fishing industry.

Kim
I don't get how you see the show of solidarity as support for the commercial interest. As it stands right now the commercial interests continue to fish while we as a recreational sector sit here and argue amongst ourselves while we can't catch the same fish the comercial guys are still fishing for. If we are smart as recreational guys we should work with the charter guys to come up with a plan that helps both of us. If we stay separated like this and continue to argue the commercial guys are getting what they want. We'll never take any of the commercial 51% if we continue like this. I think we need to work with the charter guys and work towards a goal of Commerical 40%, Charter 30%, and Recreational 30%. Again if we don't work together we might all get 0% while the commercial guys keep their 51%.
 

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69Viking (11/3/2009)
Kim (11/3/2009)Folks again I ask you not to support the commercial interest with a show of solidarity. By doing so you will only help them take away from the recreational sector which is growing annually. We need to keep the 49% TAC for all marine resources alloted to the recreational sector. Let the charter boats go commercial and then the commercial and charter interests can divide up the 51% TAC already alloted for the commercial fishing industry.

Kim
I don't get how you see the show of solidarity as support for the commercial interest. As it stands right now the commercial interests continue to fish while we as a recreational sector sit here and argue amongst ourselves while we can't catch the same fish the comercial guys are still fishing for. If we are smart as recreational guys we should work with the charter guys to come up with a plan that helps both of us. If we stay separated like this and continue to argue the commercial guys are getting what they want. We'll never take any of the commercial 51% if we continue like this. I think we need to work with the charter guys and work towards a goal of Commerical 40%, Charter 30%, and Recreational 30%. Again if we don't work together we might all get 0% while the commercial guys keep their 51%.


69V

theproblem i see with your philosphy is that a small group of "Charter guys" that also happen tobe the organizers of the Destin protest, are supporters of the SOS plan. The SoS plansupporters with the backing of the Environmental Defense Fund and the tacit approval of the gulf council are actively working to split the TAC shares 51 % commercial (no change), 30% charter andand 19% recreational. Additionally, no surprise here - a number of the SOS supporters are commercial anglers.

How do you propose that private recreational anglers work with them?

Mark W
 

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markw4321 (11/3/2009)
69Viking (11/3/2009)
Kim (11/3/2009)Folks again I ask you not to support the commercial interest with a show of solidarity. By doing so you will only help them take away from the recreational sector which is growing annually. We need to keep the 49% TAC for all marine resources alloted to the recreational sector. Let the charter boats go commercial and then the commercial and charter interests can divide up the 51% TAC already alloted for the commercial fishing industry.

Kim
I don't get how you see the show of solidarity as support for the commercial interest. As it stands right now the commercial interests continue to fish while we as a recreational sector sit here and argue amongst ourselves while we can't catch the same fish the comercial guys are still fishing for. If we are smart as recreational guys we should work with the charter guys to come up with a plan that helps both of us. If we stay separated like this and continue to argue the commercial guys are getting what they want. We'll never take any of the commercial 51% if we continue like this. I think we need to work with the charter guys and work towards a goal of Commerical 40%, Charter 30%, and Recreational 30%. Again if we don't work together we might all get 0% while the commercial guys keep their 51%.


69V

theproblem i see with your philosphy is that a small group of "Charter guys" that also happen tobe the organizers of the Destin protest, are supporters of the SOS plan. The SoS plansupporters with the backing of the Environmental Defense Fund and the tacit approval of the gulf council are actively working to split the TAC shares 51 % commercial (no change), 30% charter andand 19% recreational. Additionally, no surprise here - a number of the SOS supporters are commercial anglers.

How do you propose that private recreational anglers work with them?

Mark W
Mark that is best I've seen it explained, thanks.I don't agree with the Charter guys SOS plan as you explained it but I also don't agree with the Charter guys and the Recreational guys fighting amongst ourselves when the goal of the protest is to stand up to the commercial interests and the government restrictions on recreational anglers, it's not necessarily a show of support for SOS is it? If the Charter guys want our support for SOS I recommend they meet with the recreational guys and work out a better plan for it. It's clear theCharter guys are playing both sides of the fence so they need to work with their commerical buddies and work out a better plan. Something along the lines of commercial 40%, charter 30%, and recreational30%. I'm just a small time fisherman thatlikes to go out with my sons and catch fish. Under the current actions that ability is slowly going away, something has to change, I just wish I had more power to make it happen.
 

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69Viking (11/3/2009)
markw4321 (11/3/2009)
69Viking (11/3/2009)
Kim (11/3/2009)Folks again I ask you not to support the commercial interest with a show of solidarity. By doing so you will only help them take away from the recreational sector which is growing annually. We need to keep the 49% TAC for all marine resources alloted to the recreational sector. Let the charter boats go commercial and then the commercial and charter interests can divide up the 51% TAC already alloted for the commercial fishing industry.

Kim
I don't get how you see the show of solidarity as support for the commercial interest. As it stands right now the commercial interests continue to fish while we as a recreational sector sit here and argue amongst ourselves while we can't catch the same fish the comercial guys are still fishing for. If we are smart as recreational guys we should work with the charter guys to come up with a plan that helps both of us. If we stay separated like this and continue to argue the commercial guys are getting what they want. We'll never take any of the commercial 51% if we continue like this. I think we need to work with the charter guys and work towards a goal of Commerical 40%, Charter 30%, and Recreational 30%. Again if we don't work together we might all get 0% while the commercial guys keep their 51%.


69V

theproblem i see with your philosophy is that a small group of "Charter guys" that also happen tobe the organizers of the Destin protest, are supporters of the SOS plan. The SoS plansupporters with the backing of the Environmental Defense Fund and the tacit approval of the gulf council are actively working to split the TAC shares 51 % commercial (no change), 30% charter andand 19% recreational. Additionally, no surprise here - a number of the SOS supporters are commercial anglers.

How do you propose that private recreational anglers work with them?

Mark W
it's not necessarily a show of support for SOS is it?
That is the question of the day. One minute feel like Iought to show upwith my boat in Destin and the next start thinking what happen's if i do show up and12-24 monthsfrom now thegovernment institute's SOS I will feel pretty stupid when the charter's are fishing and we are not.

Either way - feel like the best chance to get short term relieffor longer recreational fishing seasons andbetter stock assessments is the potential to change the verbiage in the Magnuson Stevens Act that is currently working.

Mark W
 

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Mark



You made some good points there but stop and think about the recreational angler sector. What's one thing about our sector that is markedly different from the commercial and charter sectors?? The answer is " OUR NUMBERS GROW EVERY YEAR!!!!!! We need to keep our 49 % of the TAC it insure a fishery for the recreational angler population. Keep in mind that the numbers of commercial and charter boats is limited by the number of permits available. So that means their numbers are pretty much static. So they could work out a reasonable fishery for both the commercial and recreationalk sectors. This way the commercial side can have 51% of the TAC taken by a stable number of permit holders and get their quota of 4.25 % of the TAC every month of the year. that would give them a pretty much guarenteed financial stability every month. The recreational sector will have to live with regulation, bag limits and even closed season if necessary to maintain our marine natural resources in sufficient numbers.



PS. I want to be able to take my grandchildren fishing.



Kim
 

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Discussion Starter #78
No one needs to travel to destin. You can do your own protest in pensacola, with pri recs guys only if you want, or you can join hands with others. The message to be sent to dc is from everyone, relax the overly restrictive overfishing requirements which are affecting everyone. If the law is relaxed evferyone gains, not just one sector over another. Doing your own protest in pensacola simply shows support to amend the law so we can all continue to fish, period. Protests will take place in destin, panama city, mexico beach, I hear rumor that the people in orange beach will be doing one. Others on the east coast are doing protests, we have finally gotten people in different areas of the country to work together for the common cause. The list is growing and hopefully more congressional folks will hear the message and get the job done.

This is what the protest is all about. Not to benefit me, you, him, or her. To benefit everyone!
 
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