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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

In an effort to have everybody have a common understanding of Florida concealed carry laws and lawful use of defensive force and use of deadly force in Florida I would like to answer any of your questions and create discussion on the many topics of concealed carry.



I get several calls a month asking me if I can recommend a good attorney because the caller had been arrested for unlawful use of a firearm. Perhaps some discussion here on the topic can avoid those calls.



Things to Remember:




-You may be arrested for any reason whether lawful or not.

-Never argue with a LEO, save your argument for your judge and your attorney's bill.

-Not everyone views the US Constitution with as much passion and fervor as you do.

-Although it may be your right, it may not be your day.

-LEO's have bad days too. A little respect goes a long way when getting questioned.

-You're not the only person in the room with a concealed weapon. Be polite to everyone.

-Don't trust anyone when it comes to the law, read it for yourself off the state's website. Then consult an attorney, a judge, and a prosecutor, but remember it's the LEO who will arrest you.



and most importantly

-Just because it's not unlawful, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Common sense will always prevail over common foolishness.
 

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The sad thing is, there is no standard of training for civilians in Florida for concealed carry. LEO's and armed security get all of the same training regardless of where they are in the state and there is no consistency for everybody else. we still have people who believe they can lawfully shoot people for simply trespassing and then when it happens the laws are changed to effect of all of us negatively.

I'm working with our state representatives to introduce legislation that makes out concealed and open carry laws simpler to understand and requires more than one bullet at a gun show to qualify someone to carry a concealed firearm.



There is so much out there that if people knew, they would be up in arms about the lack of training to carry a firearm. It's all about education and understanding that not everything is a good idea even if it seems constitutional or not. There are people out there fighting to take away our right to defend ourselves, our families, and our state. The only way not to give them the ammunition to do is to increase our knowledge of the laws and our firearms training. Every time a person with a CCW screws up, it reflects all of us who carry lawfully.
 

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Some very good info. right there. I especially like your comment of "common sense will always prevail over common foolishness." The only problem is there's alot of people out there where common sense ain't so common!
 

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Ron, good advice.....I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly from concealed carry! Other helpful advice if you are carrying and have a run-in w/ LEO's, disclose it!!! or you might end up in a bad situation.:letsdrink
 

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Capt Ron

I've heard some conflicting advice on how to disclose to LEO that you are carrying, some say to hand him your ccp, others have said to keep your hands in sight and to advise him you are a ccp holder and have a concieled weapon and let him decide how to handle it. I'd like to hear any encounters that others have had with LEO, good or bad, when armed. I think most would be traffic stops, but other situations would be intresting to hear about too.
 

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"we still have people who believe they can lawfully shoot people for simply trespassing and then when it happens the laws are changed to effect of all of us negatively."

That is a fact. I can't believe some of the bravado, stupid comments made by people on some of the gun forums I visit. It's as if they are just hoping somebody comes in their yard so they can shoot him. Personally, I wish Florida had more training requirements than that silly gun show course that suffices to get a permit. There are some people running around with guns that shouldn't be. (And I am a big supporter of the 2nd amendment.)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm working on putting a video together with the ECSO on what would be the polite way to handle the situation when being pulled over. It would also help establish a standard of training for all citizens.



I have yet to see FL legislation that mandates informing the LEO that you have a weapon if not asked. If anyone knows where such legislation can be found PLEASE let me know.



Until then I follow this simple rule:



Put yourself in the officer's shoes:

You deal with scumbags and people who want to kill you all day long. You go to a domestic call where a woman is getting her brains bashed in by her baby's daddy and when you arrest him for beating her senseless she sticks a knife in your back because she can't live without him.

Now when you pull somebody over, you really don't care whether they have a license to carry or not, you don't care statistically that a FL CWL holder is less likely to shoot you than another LEO, all you care about: there is a loaded gun in the car or on the person and you want to make it home to your family alive at the end of the day with the same amount of holes in you that you started with in the beginning of your shift.



When pulled over by the PoPo:

-Shut your engine and radio off. A little courtesy goes along way. Nobody wants to breathe in your exhaust or listen to your sad depressing country music ;)

-If you have tinted windows and it's not raining, roll them down.

-Have your drivers license in one hand along with registration,INS card. Have your CWL clearly displayed in the other hand and have both hands on top of your steering wheel. Remember to smile, you're one of the good guys.



Each LEO will do his/her own thing so that they will feel safe and you may get a cool cop or you may get a jerk. If you are in big city, don't expect any cool cops.



- The LEO will see your CWL, then sternly ask you if you have a weapon/gun on you or in the car.



Just because you have a CWL, doesn't mean there is not a felony arrest warrant out there with your name on it, especially if you have a common name.



Yes Sir, I have a pistol on my side, ankle, under my hat, all of the above, etc

Yes Sir, like a dummy I have my pistol in the glove box next to my registration and insurance card.

Most of the time you might hear the LEO say, "It will be safer for both of us if we both keep our weapons holstered"



Or he might not say anything at all and just take both you drivers license and CWL because if you have any warrants out for you, you are not going get either of them back soon.



What I don't understand is when they ask you to hand over your weapon over, they unload it, place it on the top of your car, while the whole time you could be grabbing another weapon. I have actually seen that in a training video for some other state. That is crazy, let's handle somebody's weapon that we may have never seen before.



What do you do if you have a gun in the car and don't have a CWL.

Do the same thing with your left hand by holding your DL, INS, Reg and placing it on top of the steering wheel and with your right hand make the gun symbol using your thumb and index finger (don't point it at the PoPo), still keeping it on the steering wheel. The LEO may ask if you have a gun in the car he may not. If you wish to verbally inform him that you have a gun in the car, feel free to do so and then follow the LEO instructions.



If you are going to carry a gun in the car and you are over 21 then get a CWL!
 

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Ron, I'll still agree w/ all you are throwing out there.......Except "What do you do if you have a gun in the car and don't have a CWL.
Do the same thing with your left hand by holding your DL, INS, Reg and placing it on top of the steering wheel and with your right hand make the gun symbol using your thumb and index finger (don't point it at the PoPo), still keeping it on the steering wheel."

If I pull you over and you make a gun symbol while your hands are on the steering wheel...I'll think you are being a smart alec. Many folks I have pulled over will say they have a permit or a firearm and I deeply appreciate that. There is no law saying that a LEO must be informed, but it's a common courtesy. We'll go over this scenario... I pull you over, our K9 is nearby and wants to run the dog around your car. I will automatically ask if there is any dope/guns/explosives so on and so forth ( I can't say another officer will ask the same). Lets say you aren't asked and you don't say you have a gun on your side/back. As I do my weapons pat down, I notice a firearm concealed. My 1st reaction will be putting putting you on the ground or covering you w/ my firearm (depending on location/circumstances). There are several what if's....This all could have be avoided by saying, hey I have a permit and I am carrying.

You are doing good w/ the family onhere and am just throwing out some experience out there....Keep up the good work brother!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I know who I'm gonna call when it comes time to make the training video. Every state has a different protocol. I hate to have more laws passed to establish protocol, but if we don't come up with a standard of citizen training we will be regulated by laws raher than curriculum which is much easier to change and improve upon. Don't be suprized if you see a committe of citizens put together to make recommendations for ccw training in the future. Something we can discuss in further posts.
 

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In Arkansas to get you CCP you have to have the training/printing/FBI Background check and it is the law to give your CCP and DL to the officer when pulled over. I have been pulled over three times since I received my CCP and each time once the Officer/Trooper saw it, they were visibly more relaxed. I was asked once if I was carrying and the other times they did not even bother.All threejust handed me back my permits and told me to have a nice day. I never found out why I was pulled over. I am pretty sure one was becuase of my Windows (Very dark but legal). Granted, I am very friendly and polite but I do believe that Background check carries a lot of weight.
 

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First , Thanks for taking the time to address this sort of thing with us.

Ifor one have not been pulled over in 20 years ---- untill 2 weeks ago.

It was a State trooper / Marked , new Dodge , I should have seen him earlier but i didn't , and he caught me going over the speed limit in cantonment , just before the light.as soon as I could see him , he was turning around to come after me , and I immediately turned into the next drive " forgot to turn off the engine the whole time " but had my drivers licence , registration , insurance card , and CCL out and hands on the wheel in 10 seconds.</DIV>He was a very pleasant officer about 55-60.He asked if i had a weapon , and where it was.</DIV></DIV>I immediately told him it was in the center console , plus a Ruger LCP in my pocket.as he went back tohis car , I said , Oh Yes , I also have a bolt action hunting rifle in a hard case that is unloaded in the back.</DIV></DIV>I had no Idea what would happen next , [ reinforcements , pulled out on the ground and roughed up , ]</DIV></DIV>however he only gave me a warning and I must say I have enough self discipline to head his warning.</DIV></DIV>I went away feeling much better about LE , and he said he thought i was just another drunk he would have to deal with.</DIV>
 

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The video here is one of my friend's 12 year old 72.5lb niece Angel, shooting a Glock 19 9mm. She has never shot a gun before this day and she is typically very shy and withdrawn around people. This wasn't a class, this was me spending 20 minutes with a new shooter who had not yet established any poor shooting habits. These are some of my most rewarding days and yes I'm proud of her.

It was a crowded Saturday at the range and we did get a little messy, but I don't like to leave my guns behind me on the bench when I'm focused down range. They can walk off pretty fast if you're not looking and I don't have eyes in the back of my head.



 

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Is an Alabama Hunter's Education card valid to get my CCP in FL? It is recognized by the FWC for purchasing hunting licenses from what I can gather, but I don't hunt in FL, so never bought one.
 

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twiceRetired Serve No One
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Good Vid , She kept the muzzle pointed in the right direction all the time.

Let me share my way of teaching.

1st - I want respect for the weapon !!!!!!!

I took my children out behind my home at early ages to teach them safety.

nothing is morepowerful thanvisible example in my opinion.

I wouldpre positionan empty milk jug and fill it with water out behind my home.

I then asked my children if they wanted to learn about guns?

wow , they were as excited as i was to see my first playboy mag ! - I Know / TMI

so we go around back , set down and get comfortable as i show them my Glock 21

I remove the magazine and ask them if the gun is unloaded ?

they all say yes - yes - yes - the mag is out = it is unloaded! Right!

I then pull the trigger and discharge a Corbon Hollow point into the jug that is next me, and the expression on their faces is worth a thousand words !

besides being soaked and seeing an extremely mangled / split / destroyed empty disintegrated milk jug , they gained the knowledge , that an unloaded gun may not be unloaded after all , and a close up view of the damage a gun can do!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wharf Rat (2/9/2010)Is an Alabama Hunter's Education card valid to get my CCP in FL? It is recognized by the FWC for purchasing hunting licenses from what I can gather, but I don't hunt in FL, so never bought one.


It will probably get you your license depending on who opens your application or who does your filing at FWB. They sadly pretty much except anything for training.

My job is to train people selling the class is a small part of it really, but let me say this:



Put yourself on a jury, try to be liberal minded and you don't own a gun because gun owners are often the first to be deselected by the prosecution.

Now explain to the jury the extent of your pistol training and knowledge of FLORIDA laws pertaining to the lawful use of deadly force based the the training and education you received while getting your Alabama's Hunter education card.



Regardless of whether the documentation your used for training was valid or not, you are going to look like an irresponsible gun owner, once painted with a base coat of irresponsibility by the prosecution, the glossy coat of negligence goes on quite easy and smooth.

I would be in your courtroom free of charge as your instructor and expert witness explaining to the jury that you did what you were trained to do by a Florida State certified firearms instructor, if you did in fact behave as if you were trained, you most likely wouldn't be there to begin with in the first place. Trained is the key word. Think of any extra training you receive as an insurance policy. Irresponsibility people don't take extra training, especially when they are not required to by law, but good responsible citizens do take the "extra" training and rarely end up in front of a jury. You often get what you pay for with pretty much anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
HisName (2/9/2010)Good Vid , She kept the muzzle pointed in the right direction all the time.



Let me share my way of teaching.



1st - I want respect for the weapon !!!!!!!



I took my children out behind my home at early ages to teach them safety.



nothing is more powerful than visible example in my opinion.



I would pre-position an empty milk jug and fill it with water out behind my home.



I then asked my children if they wanted to learn about guns?



wow , they were as excited as i was to see my first playboy mag ! - I Know / TMI



so we go around back , set down and get comfortable as i show them my Glock 21



I remove the magazine and ask them if the gun is unloaded ?



they all say yes - yes - yes - the mag is out = it is unloaded! Right!



I then pull the trigger and discharge a Corbon Hollow point into the jug that is next me, and the expression on their faces is worth a thousand words !



besides being soaked and seeing an extremely mangled / split / destroyed empty disintegrated milk jug , they gained the knowledge , that an unloaded gun may not be unloaded after all , and a close up view of the damage a gun can do!


I have seen the video showing the same training with a watermelon!

An outstanding training idea, it would be nice if more adults cared enough or knew enough to start the introduction that way.

Unfortunately I won't be able to do such training at public ranges due to watermelons and water jugs being unauthorized targets. I'm working on getting a small private pistol range to train very soon where I can also set up IDPA style course, moving targets, using auto as cover, etc.



I can hear the liberal voice already:

"Are you trying to scare those kids to death!?!"

"Yes mam, I am."
 
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