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Neptune calls me "Daddy"
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reeltime (2/10/2010)
treble (2/10/2010)
so in sum, you ruin your beaches, making tourists move to other beaches, which affects industries that actually employ locals. in exchange for this you get to line the pockets of texans and louisianans while they extract FL resources.
They also wish to ignore the fact that the air force will be further pressured into moving all weapons testing out west. The JSF is already making that difficult, although barely workable.

So you also lose all those engineers and scientists that actually buy expensive houses, boats, cars, etc, for an industry that will operate offshore with imported workers.

You guys can't see the forest for the trees, just like when they thought eliminating the NADEP to make room for an enlisted training command would some how be an economic benefit. There was only a short burst of construction and then all those good paying jobs were replaced with a few middle income enlisted instructors and recruits that don't have a pot to piss in.
Not sure what the point is here... there are thousands more student as NAS P'cola and hundreds more instructors before the Navy moved the "A" schools here.

250 Engineers at $75000 to 120,000per year,... or 6000 "rolling"students at $20,000 per yearand 300 instructors at $45,000 per year.

Hmmm...

Jim
 

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jim t (2/10/2010)
reeltime (2/10/2010)
treble (2/10/2010)

so in sum, you ruin your beaches, making tourists move to other beaches, which affects industries that actually employ locals. in exchange for this you get to line the pockets of texans and louisianans while they extract FL resources.


They also wish to ignore the fact that the air force will be further pressured into moving all weapons testing out west. The JSF is already making that difficult, although barely workable.



So you also lose all those engineers and scientists that actually buy expensive houses, boats, cars, etc, for an industry that will operate offshore with imported workers.



You guys can't see the forest for the trees, just like when they thought eliminating the NADEP to make room for an enlisted training command would some how be an economic benefit. There was only a short burst of construction and then all those good paying jobs were replaced with a few middle income enlisted instructors and recruits that don't have a pot to piss in.


Not sure what the point is here... there are thousands more student as NAS P'cola and hundreds more instructors before the Navy moved the "A" schools here.



250 Engineers at $75000 to 120,000per year,... or 6000 "rolling"students at $20,000 per year and 300 instructors at $45,000 per year.



Hmmm...



Jim


The engineers and scientists I spoke of are Eglin, and there are alot more than 250 of them.



As for you NAS computations, consider that NADEP employed 3500 employees with an average income of $55000. Also consider that those "rolling" students aren't buying houses.



wow, you got screwed and didn't even know it. Quit missin' the forest 'cause you starin' at da trees.
 

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<SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl9_lblFullMessage>This Galveston beach? [url]http://photos.igougo.com/images/p202574-Queensland-Mooloolaba_Beach.jpg[/url]

Or this one? [url]http://www.sideshowworld.com/TY-ConPT3-5.jpg[/url]

Or any on this page of pics of people having fun on galveston beaches? [url]http://images.google.com/images?q=galveston+beaches+pics&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=AX5zS9LXNc-hnQfRrdSfCw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQsAQwAA[/url]

Looks like hell why? Because the sand isn't white?HERE WEGO AGAIN, proclaiming it will mean the total distruction of the beaches and tourist industries. TOTAL BS.

And the tourists aren't always the gangbuster industry here. After hurricanes, fishery closures, winter time, etc. you starve hoping someday the tourists will come back.

And only people will be ferried to the rigs on helicopters. everything else (and some people) will still go by boat.

Also, when you're in a jet flying out to practice air to air, it only means another couple of minutes of flight time to get beyond the rigs. Yeah, they might have to tow a surface target a little farther out but that's not a high frequency mission here, anyway.

So you go stand on the other side of the street with all the environazis and PETA members, and when the oil rigs get here, don't let me hear about you fishing around them!


Think about this, also. Our demand WILL continue to grow. So what do we do? Ignore it? Buy it from other countries forever? Can't drill in Alaska, the reindeer will all be killed and the ice cap will melt. Can't do it here, the tourists will hear about it and not like us. So what should we do?
 

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Speaking of hurricanes. the quickest recovery from the worst hit place was Venice where the Oil business pumped money in while rebuilding and everyone everywhere else was waiting for a handout. So even if we don't get jillions of jobs, in case of another one, It would be nice to have SOME money coming in while the tourists take a two year vacation to somewhere else.
 

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Whizzed off realist
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Hey TREBLE... How much time do you spend out there in the Gulf... How many f-in oil spills has your propaganda leftist ass seen out there... people like you want the public to think that production of oil or gas anywhere is not a good idea. You crank up a car every day and you get on airplanes going to wherever your heart desires. You just dont want your fuel coming from friendly sources. Your kind of oil supports terrorist bombers. Oil exploration companies are so well regulated that spills are not cost effective. This means that fines are so high, that companies that produce oil and gas abide by the rules because it is too expensive not too. There is some more truth to my post... foreign oil exploration outside US waters do not have the same rules and restrictions on oil pollution containment and prevention that US production interest do. So what are the true agendas of those that oppose US explorations and production of OUR energy? We have 10%+ not employed... can these protesters provide jobs? Or.. is their job to PROTEST????
 

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Neptune calls me "Daddy"
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reeltime (2/10/2010)
jim t (2/10/2010)
reeltime (2/10/2010)
treble (2/10/2010)
so in sum, you ruin your beaches, making tourists move to other beaches, which affects industries that actually employ locals. in exchange for this you get to line the pockets of texans and louisianans while they extract FL resources.
They also wish to ignore the fact that the air force will be further pressured into moving all weapons testing out west. The JSF is already making that difficult, although barely workable.

So you also lose all those engineers and scientists that actually buy expensive houses, boats, cars, etc, for an industry that will operate offshore with imported workers.

You guys can't see the forest for the trees, just like when they thought eliminating the NADEP to make room for an enlisted training command would some how be an economic benefit. There was only a short burst of construction and then all those good paying jobs were replaced with a few middle income enlisted instructors and recruits that don't have a pot to piss in.
Not sure what the point is here... there are thousands more student as NAS P'cola and hundreds more instructors before the Navy moved the "A" schools here.

250 Engineers at $75000 to 120,000per year,... or 6000 "rolling"students at $20,000 per year and 300 instructors at $45,000 per year.

Hmmm...

Jim
The engineers and scientists I spoke of are Eglin, and there are alot more than 250 of them.

As for you NAS computations, consider that NADEP employed 3500 employees with an average income of $55000. Also consider that those "rolling" students aren't buying houses.

wow, you got screwed and didn't even know it. Quit missin' the forest 'cause you starin' at da trees.
I'd like to see your source for that info... when NASP NADEP closed it was only doing work on the H-53. What, maybe 60 aircraft in the fleet?

3500 employees for about60 airplanes seems a bit high.

Heck, 4 hangers and a few block office buildings seems a little small even if NASChevalier Field was at full capacity, for 3500 employees, though it's possible.

Jim
 

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any of you guys in favor of drilling ever been to galveston. it looks like hell.
Not from drilling.

if creating jobs is the argument in favor of drilling consider this. none of the oil companies that would put in these rigs are based in FL, so no jobs there.
A mojority of thedrilling off of Louisiana is based out of houston. Drilling of a well is only about 5% of the life span of the well. The other 95% is producing it. Thats where the jobs come in. Producing the wells. Groceries for offshore installations. Service companies. Fuel to keep things running. Supply companies. Maintenance and fabriacation of structures. Could go on and on. I work with people from all over the country, not Just AL and LA.

so far as people to actually work the rigs, those people will most likely be helicoptered in from LA.
Thats not cost productive, and the bottom line is cost. Industry wide.They would almost certainly have to build heliports and marine terminalss in FL. You want cold weather income? There you go.If and when they begin drilling off FL coast a deepwater port would literally be worth it's weight in gold.
 

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jim t (2/10/2010)
reeltime (2/10/2010)
jim t (2/10/2010)
reeltime (2/10/2010)
treble (2/10/2010)

so in sum, you ruin your beaches, making tourists move to other beaches, which affects industries that actually employ locals. in exchange for this you get to line the pockets of texans and louisianans while they extract FL resources.


They also wish to ignore the fact that the air force will be further pressured into moving all weapons testing out west. The JSF is already making that difficult, although barely workable.



So you also lose all those engineers and scientists that actually buy expensive houses, boats, cars, etc, for an industry that will operate offshore with imported workers.



You guys can't see the forest for the trees, just like when they thought eliminating the NADEP to make room for an enlisted training command would some how be an economic benefit. There was only a short burst of construction and then all those good paying jobs were replaced with a few middle income enlisted instructors and recruits that don't have a pot to piss in.


Not sure what the point is here... there are thousands more student as NAS P'cola and hundreds more instructors before the Navy moved the "A" schools here.



250 Engineers at $75000 to 120,000per year,... or 6000 "rolling"students at $20,000 per year and 300 instructors at $45,000 per year.



Hmmm...



Jim


The engineers and scientists I spoke of are Eglin, and there are alot more than 250 of them.



As for you NAS computations, consider that NADEP employed 3500 employees with an average income of $55000. Also consider that those "rolling" students aren't buying houses.



wow, you got screwed and didn't even know it. Quit missin' the forest 'cause you starin' at da trees.


I'd like to see your source for that info... when NASP NADEP closed it was only doing work on the H-53. What, maybe 60 aircraft in the fleet?



3500 employees for about60 airplanes seems a bit high.



Heck, 4 hangers and a few block office buildings seems a little small even if NASChevalier Field was at full capacity, for 3500 employees, though it's possible.



Jim
When the last guy locked the NADEP gate your numbers may be close, but the closure decision was made long before that point. At the time of that decision 3500 is closer to accurate. In fact only a few years prior the number was higher.



My main point is that many folks blindly grab at any new proposed venture that may add jobs, without seriously considering what negative impact it may have on existing jobs. For example JSF training at Eglin sounds like a great job creator, but if it eliminates the weapons testing capability the effect could be a net loss. The current weapons testing jobs are all high paid permanent residences, similar to NADEP jobs, not "rolling" students taught by a hand full of decently paid instructors.



Offshore drilling sounds great, but everyone needs to consider the big picture and realize that drilling will impact the ability to keep well paid jobs in our area. If you can afford to lose all those jobs, have minimal impact on tourism, resulting in a net gain significant enough to justify the risk, then sure, drill baby drill. But please consider the FULL economic impact and get the real numbers before jumping over the cliff.
 

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We will drill in Florida before its all said and done. But with luck our generation will not see it. Maybe a few generations down the road. Lets face it, we (the present generation and f&*()^% baby boomers) have had our fair share of pissing the the world/USA recources down the drain. There is no need to rely on overseas oil. Ifdrive fuel efficient vehicles, such as the 30-40 mile per gallon type we become no longer needoverseas oil. But (me included) choose to drive gas guzzling trucks and what have you. Whatsthe point in whinning, we get what we diserve. Driling in Florida is justa band aid for our selfish attitude towards oil.

Rich, Navarre

26 Year Vet.
 

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ammo angler (2/11/2010)We will drill in Florida before its all said and done. But with luck our generation will not see it. Maybe a few generations down the road. Lets face it, we (the present generation and f&*()^% baby boomers) have had our fair share of pissing the the world/USA recources down the drain. There is no need to rely on overseas oil. Ifdrive fuel efficient vehicles, such as the 30-40 mile per gallon type we become no longer needoverseas oil. But (me included) choose to drive gas guzzling trucks and what have you. Whatsthe point in whinning, we get what we diserve. Driling in Florida is justa band aid for our selfish attitude towards oil.

Rich, Navarre

26 Year Vet.
Sounds like Obama! ROFLMAO The USA is nothing buta bunch of selfish, greedy, ecoterrorists!JEEZ.

Got news for you. If everyone started buying those little cars tomorrow, we will STILL need to drill. Why wait till it's an emergency? Why wait till a "dissagreement" with another nation has them cutting off our oil and causing a national crisis?. Why wait to start putting the money we send overseas foroil into , oh, lets just say, the free health care some (greedy) folks are whining about ? Do some research on the percentages of our use. Cars are only one part. And NOTHING but petroleum (in one form or another) will be able to run semi trucks, trains, planes, etc.years to come. Don't forget to figure in the military's consumption for tanks, planes, ships,trucks, etc.

Population growth is just as much a factor. We're no where near some other countries in that department. Got kids?<P align=center>DRILL, BABY, DRILL
 

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69Viking (2/10/2010)Those that oppose drilling off of Florida's coast only show everyone how uneducated they are on the subject. Initially before I educated myself on the subject I was one who opposed the drilling no matter if you could see it or not but after researching it I have no problem with drilling for oil if we can keep it out of sight from our beaches. Whenhave you ever heard of an oil leak disaster because of an offshore rig? I never have yetwe've been drilling offshorein other states for decades. Some people are just dense and can't read through the B.S. put out by environmental extremists who have no clue. Anyone educated on the subject of offshore drilling should know that in this day and age drilling poses minimal if any environmental risks and quite honestly is a boostfor the local fish populationsbecause they create a huge cleanartificial reef wherever they are built. I also think somepeople just oppose something to opposesomething and no amount of educating will change their minds.:banghead:doh
What I've been Screaming!

AMEN BROTHER! FOLKS, HERE'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. AN INTELLIGENT PERSON WHO EDUCATED HIMSELF AND WASN'T AFRAID TO SAY HE CHANGED HIS MIND! Who do you think is the better world steward? This educated individual, or one who's mindlessly spouting stuff they think sounds good? NOT TO MENTION it just makes you a better Human Being!
 

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Neptune calls me "Daddy"
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9,093 Posts
reeltime (2/11/2010)
jim t (2/10/2010)
reeltime (2/10/2010)
jim t (2/10/2010)
reeltime (2/10/2010)
treble (2/10/2010)
so in sum, you ruin your beaches, making tourists move to other beaches, which affects industries that actually employ locals. in exchange for this you get to line the pockets of texans and louisianans while they extract FL resources.
They also wish to ignore the fact that the air force will be further pressured into moving all weapons testing out west. The JSF is already making that difficult, although barely workable.

So you also lose all those engineers and scientists that actually buy expensive houses, boats, cars, etc, for an industry that will operate offshore with imported workers.

You guys can't see the forest for the trees, just like when they thought eliminating the NADEP to make room for an enlisted training command would some how be an economic benefit. There was only a short burst of construction and then all those good paying jobs were replaced with a few middle income enlisted instructors and recruits that don't have a pot to piss in.
Not sure what the point is here... there are thousands more student as NAS P'cola and hundreds more instructors before the Navy moved the "A" schools here.

250 Engineers at $75000 to 120,000per year,... or 6000 "rolling"students at $20,000 per year and 300 instructors at $45,000 per year.

Hmmm...

Jim
The engineers and scientists I spoke of are Eglin, and there are alot more than 250 of them.

As for you NAS computations, consider that NADEP employed 3500 employees with an average income of $55000. Also consider that those "rolling" students aren't buying houses.

wow, you got screwed and didn't even know it. Quit missin' the forest 'cause you starin' at da trees.
I'd like to see your source for that info... when NASP NADEP closed it was only doing work on the H-53. What, maybe 60 aircraft in the fleet?

3500 employees for about60 airplanes seems a bit high.

Heck, 4 hangers and a few block office buildings seems a little small even if NASChevalier Field was at full capacity, for 3500 employees, though it's possible.

Jim
When the last guy locked the NADEP gate your numbers may be close, but the closure decision was made long before that point. At the time of that decision 3500 is closer to accurate. In fact only a few years prior the number was higher.

My main point is that many folks blindly grab at any new proposed venture that may add jobs, without seriously considering what negative impact it may have on existing jobs. For example JSF training at Eglin sounds like a great job creator, but if it eliminates the weapons testing capability the effect could be a net loss. The current weapons testing jobs are all high paid permanent residences, similar to NADEP jobs, not "rolling" students taught by a hand full of decently paid instructors.

Offshore drilling sounds great, but everyone needs to consider the big picture and realize that drilling will impact the ability to keep well paid jobs in our area. If you can afford to lose all those jobs, have minimal impact on tourism, resulting in a net gain significant enough to justify the risk, then sure, drill baby drill. But please consider the FULL economic impact and get the real numbers before jumping over the cliff.
Okay, I can buy your numbers for NADEP. As I said before the testing can go offshore or they can build a corridor for missile tests. I've flown range clearance for a few tests, they actually don't need a LOT of room. They are pretty canned tests. I'd guess a 120 x 200 mile box would be plenty.

Missile tests are only ONE phase of training for the JSF. There is a lot more training than an occassional missile test. When I flew the S-3 we would do torpedo testing off Andros Island (tongue of the ocean) or off St. Croix in the Virgin Islands. We never tested near our home base.

There needs to be a balanced approach to drilling for sure, but "missile tests" are not a dealbreaker in my opinion.

Jim
 

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sniper (2/8/2010)I am AGAINST it
there is no benifit for us haveing an eye sore off our beaches. So maybe it would give you a few more places to fish. If you want to fish rigs take a short trip over to Alabama.

Guess who is one of the biggest protestors.
The military. They are going to expand their operations here. That is definate revenue. But they have made it clear that if oil rigs are allowed off the beaches they will not be expanding their operations and will likely pull a lot of what they already have in place. That would be a huge economic loss. The military is a reason Pensacola is what it is.

People visit here for the beautiful beaches. You will end that real fast by putting ugly oil platforms out there.

How do you see it as a benifit to Pensacola ? Do you think they will start giving you free gas? Are they going to give all of us jobs? Oh wait. You will now have another place to fish. Do you realize how many reefs there are in the gulf? Fish those. Everytime I go fishing I find more numbers. I have close to 1000. All you have to do is look for them.

Also Louisiana did not become a large supplier of sea food because they put oil rigs out in their waters. That is a dumb statement. I think maybe it has something to do with the delta flowing in there maybe?

Don't think you will come on here and promise everyone that oil rigs are going to produce more fish and they will all get in line with you to ruin our beaches. Even if it did produce more fish, we can't keep them anyway.
you speak of eyesores,have you noticed how the beach already looks?giant towers painted brown blocking the gulf is what i see.when you speak of jobs,pensacola is dead except health care,we dont need anymore t shirt shops and tourism is so badly affected by the economy that it cant be relied on.the military in general does not exactly provide a large base for real jobs,and i mean jobs that pay more than minimum wage whicjh is exactly pensacolas real job market.
 

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here is something to gnaw on:

if we were producing our own oil we would have no interest in the middle east, all our boys would be home, and the enemy would be sitting in a tent in the middle of the desert, smoking camel dung. then they would be china's and russia'sproblem. im tiredof giving those azzholes our money.
 

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I'm all forthe rigs..and not just for the fishing..for the nation..I would love a world where the folks in the big sand box could do thier thing and we don't have to even pay attention.
 

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OOPs Sorrry.

Had a bunch of stuff open and copied the wrong ones.

Right ones.... http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/houston/474d1167421556-galveston-beach-pictures-img_1575.jpg

and.. http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/houston/475d1167421698-galveston-beach-pictures-img_15741.jpg

problem with beaches was years ago, not now. People still went to them.

From one lady on one site....<DIV id=post_message_236117>"Many people in Galveston today despise Tillman Frititia for what he is doing to the island. I on the other hand love that he has brought back some of the splendor of the former Galveston. I don't want it to be too built up though. He built his own Convention Center near his other resorts there: The San Luis, The Hilton, Rainforest Cafe, etc. The San Luis has a beautiful pool and if you have never had the chance to study it, do so. If you were not aware Galveston had a HUGE reputation for gambling. The bunkers under the San Luis from war time housed underground casinos. The story of the Balanese is very interesting too. To this day I can not pass by the San Luis and not look at the large bunkers that it sits ontop of and imagine how it must have been back then.

BTW, real estate in Galveston has increased greatly in the last 3-4 years. We looked at a condo at Seascape back then and could have gotten one of the 2 bedrooms for around $65K, now they are over $100K. I've also heard that Bolivar Island and Crystal Beach are getting ready to see some developments."</DIV>
 

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how2fish (2/13/2010)I'm all forthe rigs..and not just for the fishing..for the nation..I would love a world where the folks in the big sand box could do thier thing and we don't have to even pay attention.
EXACTLY!THE FISHINGIS just extra. The main thing is WE NEED TO DRILL OUR OWN OIL.One guy posted that it won't bring down prices. Right. BUT, It is insurance that we will even have ANY if the folks overseas we buy it from cut us off. Or that it won't go to $8 a gallon or more if they jack the prices. I remember the gas shortage back in the day. Waitiing in line for HOURS to MAYBE get to buy some.

We need Energy Independence. We need to start NOW. DRILL. DRILL. BUILD REFINERYS. BUILD NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS. When the chit hits the fan, it'll be too late.
 
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