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Discussion Starter #1
I recently bought a 31' center console. The engines are 2005 Suzuki 4-strokes. I was told when purchasing the boat (by the owner and the agent) that the engines only had 172 hours on them. The surveyor checked it out and confirmed this. Well, I recently had some minor issues and put the boat in the shop (the engines are still under warranty). Gary, at Lou's marine starts looking into the warranty claim history on the engines and finds out that both ECU's were replaced on the engines, and that at that time the engines had 839 hours on them! So I basically bought a boat with 2 outboards that had 1000 hours on them and it was sold to me saying that they only had 172 hours. Now I know if you sell a car and turn back the odometer to cover up the actual engine mileage it is illegal. Does this apply to boats as well? This was obviously done to cover up the actual hours on the engines and was never disclosed. Has anyone ever had any experience like this, or does anyone know if I have any legal recourse? Any lawyer reccomendations?

Thanks,

Bob
 

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To change the ECU's just to roll back the hours would have been very expensive, but I suppose someone might do it.

Two part answer to your question. 1. As far as the state is concern, the hours do not matter. It isn't like mileage on a car. 2. Legally, if the boat was advertised with x number of hours then that would deceptive advertising, but I doubt you would find a lawyer to take the case. It could be argued that you should have had the serial numbers check thru a dealer prior to purchase.

Do you know if the person you bough the boat from was the original owner of the engines?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
He was not the original owner, but had the ECU's replaced. Suzuki did a warranty campaign several years back to replace the ECU's. The previous owner did not have this done until (what I believe) he was ready to start trying to sell the boat. Because obviously the boat would have been much more difficult to sell and worth far less with 1000 hours vs. 172 hrs.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The boat was bought in Jacksonville. I honestly don't think the owner disclosed the info to the agent as I called him the other day and had words with him about the situation. The surveyor isn't necessarily at fault either, because the engines did read 172 hours on them. He had no clue the ECU's had been changed. I had no idea that the only place the engine hours were kept on these engines now is on the ECU's and that if you change them it starts back over at 0. Needless to say I'm a little pissed.

Bob
 

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I'm not saying it isn't possible, but to put 1000 hrs on an engine in 5 years would add up to alot of fishing (~17 hours of run timeevery month). I would double check before I went too much farther with legal proccedings. just my $0.02
 

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alanbarck (1/19/2010)I'm not saying it isn't possible, but to put 1000 hrs on an engine in 5 years would add up to alot of fishing (~17 hours of run timeevery month). I would double check before I went too much farther with legal proccedings. just my $0.02
I know a few guys that put 500+ hours on a boat in a year on inshore boats. They are guides but who is to say that the previous owner didnt run charters out of it.
 

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seems like you would have a case against the seller for either:

fraud by inducement or,

fraud by concealment.....
 

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Actually you do have recourse,,, I sold a Jet ski a few years ago,,, the digital odometer had x hours on it, i advertised it with those hours,,, and sold it, the lady who bought it used it all that summer,,, then broke down, thru inspection they found out the digital dash had been replaced, because of that she sued me for the repairs, and she won,,, the judge said when i advertised the ski with x hours, that was an implied warranty, I had to pay for the repairs and she got to keep the ski,,, hows that for justice,,,
 

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Splittine (1/19/2010)
alanbarck (1/19/2010)I'm not saying it isn't possible, but to put 1000 hrs on an engine in 5 years would add up to alot of fishing (~17 hours of run timeevery month). I would double check before I went too much farther with legal proccedings. just my $0.02
I know a few guys that put 500+ hours on a boat in a year on inshore boats. They are guides but who is to say that the previous owner didnt run charters out of it.
I can see where that would be plausible. But I was giving him the benifit of the doubt and assuming that he would not have <U>knowingly</U> purchased a charter boat with 5 year old engines and believed that they only had 172 hours on them. If it was used as a charter and that was not disclosed then I would be highly pissed and would just skip the lawyer part.:blownaway Wouldn't the surveyor have caught that though?
 

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No lawyer for sure but was watching a Judge Mathis show the other day and the same came up about a car kinda. ( I KNOW IT IS NOT THE SAME AS A HOLIDAY INN BUT...)

Something about was the car sold in Earnest (sp?) Some kinda of legal stuff but the car was sold with the intent to decieve and the woman got her money backeven though it was sold AS IS. It was an AS IS car but he told her is was in good running condition when it wasn't.

I'm sure you would win in civil court by using this. The owner had to know that them motors had more then 172 hours on them. A lawyer would confirm but that is a route you may ask about. You may have to ask a judge or lawyer or send one of them TV judges the question on which to sue.
 

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alanbarck (1/19/2010)
Splittine (1/19/2010)
alanbarck (1/19/2010)I'm not saying it isn't possible, but to put 1000 hrs on an engine in 5 years would add up to alot of fishing (~17 hours of run timeevery month). I would double check before I went too much farther with legal proccedings. just my $0.02
I know a few guys that put 500+ hours on a boat in a year on inshore boats. They are guides but who is to say that the previous owner didnt run charters out of it.
I can see where that would be plausible. But I was giving him the benifit of the doubt and assuming that he would not have <U>knowingly</U> purchased a charter boat with 5 year old engines and believed that they only had 172 hours on them. If it was used as a charter and that was not disclosed then I would be highly pissed and would just skip the lawyer part.:blownaway Wouldn't the surveyor have caught that though?[/quote]

King fish tournament boat perhaps? lots of hours in a short/hard period.

I also would think the surveyor would have researched the engine serial numbers as far as their maintenance histories to ensure the engines were maintaned in compliance with the warranty? or maybe that is not part of the boat survey?

Mark W
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for all the responses fellas. I'm going to talk to an attorney recommended by a member and see what kind of cost I'm looking at. If there's one thing in the world I can't stand, it's a liar.

Bob
 

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What do you want to get out of it?

I would think fraud would be involved somehow. The owner knew the hours were wrong yet advertised them as such in an attempt to sell the boat. That seems like fraud to me. I would think a lawyer would love a case like this. I would contact the owner and say " just so you know, I am getting a lawyer and persuin all legal recourse. Civil and criminal"
 

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Discussion Starter #18
That's another issue I have. I don't know what I want out of this. I feel I got cheated and screwed all around. I love my boat and haven't had hardly any problems out of it, but that being said...these engines are way older than advertised, I would have offered way less money, it wouldn't have appraised nearly as high, and who knows what other engine problems I'm going to have in the future? I'm not sure what a realistic request is from this (monetary amt).
 

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Hope it all works out for you man..I bought a used 05' last year and had some issues right off the bat that should have been disclosed (cracked fuel tank under deck). After about 6 months of BS with the dealer and threatening with a lawyer they finally fixed the problems. It still cost me around $700 but thats not near what it could have been. Not to mention I got to make payments while it sat for 6 months. I will personally never by used again.
 

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bellafishing (1/19/2010)I recently bought a 31' center console. The engines are 2005 Suzuki 4-strokes. I was told when purchasing the boat (by the owner and the agent) that the engines only had 172 hours on them. The surveyor checked it out and confirmed this. Well, I recently had some minor issues and put the boat in the shop (the engines are still under warranty). Gary, at Lou's marine starts looking into the warranty claim history on the engines and finds out that both ECU's were replaced on the engines, and that at that time the engines had 839 hours on them! So I basically bought a boat with 2 outboards that had 1000 hours on them and it was sold to me saying that they only had 172 hours. Now I know if you sell a car and turn back the odometer to cover up the actual engine mileage it is illegal. Does this apply to boats as well? This was obviously done to cover up the actual hours on the engines and was never disclosed. Has anyone ever had any experience like this, or does anyone know if I have any legal recourse? Any lawyer reccomendations?



Thanks,



Bob


Sounds like that "Surveyor" needs to bone up and use all tools that are available.

Or did the survey package purchased not include looking that deep?
 
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