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i may be wrong for saying this but with my perspective on the fisheries is that they are plentiful. we know it and they know it. they skew there numbers to fit there needs. with tags i believe they would do the same. whose to say that they say they got twice as many as they really did or vice versa. they can lie about them numbers just as good as they can saying they counted the averages and so on from everyone.
 

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the problem with accurately surveying recreational anglers is proving that the numbers are correct, and have not been manipulated. with the SOS plan, charter boat captains are required to record catches, the punishment for lying is the loss of their federal permit,which is the loss of their livelyhood. first off, im for the RFRA supported reef fish stamp. I am not for a tagging setup for fish. I think it makes the data collection even more cumbersome and complicated. Why not have a prepaid postage survey card that has to be filled out when we entered through the pass. the information it contained would be as followed. number of anglers, the date the fish were landed,and the fish caught per species. The species would include the following, greater amberjack, red snapper, gags, and red grouper. It would be mailed back postage paid to the nmfs headquarters for sampling. The problem i keep coming back to is how do we prove that the numbers are correct. whats to keep fishermen from not mailing in the card, or lying about the quantity of fish caught? We have to be able to prove that the information we submitted to the nmfs is correct.
 

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countryjwh (10/31/2009)i may be wrong for saying this but with my perspective on the fisheries is that they are plentiful. we know it and they know it. they skew there numbers to fit there needs. with tags i believe they would do the same. whose to say that they say they got twice as many as they really did or vice versa. they can lie about them numbers just as good as they can saying they counted the averages and so on from everyone.
The submitted tag reports could be publically availible online. If you can't find yours after submitting one, report them for loss of data or cheating. This is simply an issue covered under the freedom of information act.
 

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reeltime (10/31/2009)
countryjwh (10/31/2009)i may be wrong for saying this but with my perspective on the fisheries is that they are plentiful. we know it and they know it. they skew there numbers to fit there needs. with tags i believe they would do the same. whose to say that they say they got twice as many as they really did or vice versa. they can lie about them numbers just as good as they can saying they counted the averages and so on from everyone.
The submitted tag reports could be publically availible online. If you can't find yours after submitting one, report them for loss of data or cheating. This is simply an issue covered under the freedom of information act.
whose to say though that they don't make up names and put a ton of fish on there for people that do not even exist. what if some peta folks recieved some tags and just turned them in when they did not even go fishing. its a good idea but to many flaws in my mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
This is all good feedback and good ideas.

With a system like this there will always be a margin of error involved. Whether it be from mistakes made or people giving false data. A successful plan would be able to keep this error to a low and acceptable level.

I'm not sure how to keep the enviro's from manipulating the data. The system will have everyone's information as it does now for fishing licenses, SSN, address, name, birthdate, and race is all information that they already have from your license purchase. Maybe by using this information some how we could prevent fraud. Maybe licenses should not be available for request online. By getting them in person that might keep the enviro fraud down.

Maybe issuing the tags 10 at the time would be a better idea. That may help prevent fraud as well as keep a running tab on where we stand with the quota as the year goes on. Enviro fraud would be more obvious if these same people were requesting 10 more tags every 5 days the season is open. Reporting false data to the government would be against the law of coarse.

I prefera tag program as opposed to angler surveys. We are working off a type of survey system now. It seems likesurveys would have a large margin of error and would be wide open to major enviro fraud.

The question was asked "what if the guy that went on a charter from kansas does not file a tag report and does not care because he is not coming back?" That's a good point. Two changes to the plan may help this. Make the captain responsible for making the tag return reports for his customers. This could be either electronically or by mail. Also have a charter snapper license that is good for a one day limit (2 fish). TheCRF could get more tags just like the PRF can. This would also provide us with lots of information aboutthe charter industries customerswhen they get their snapper license. Where they are from. How often they visit/fish. What impact they make on the fishery and the local economies.

Another addition to the plan would be to have a space to write in the length of the fish harvested, this would help to get a weight estimate.

What else guys? Lets put it together and I'll put it in someone's hands, don't know if it would help or even be considered but it's worth a try.
 

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This red snapper fish tag program was sent to Capt Paul Redman and RFA director Dennis O'hern and other recreational intrest including the CCA 2/5/09 and to all gulf council members on 2/2209 . There has been noofficial response to this idea. <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am a promoter of fish tags. I like the details you have developed where a database would keep track of the number of tags purchased by an individual and they would have to use the initial set of tags before they could purchase more tags. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Julie Morris <o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Assistant Vice-President for Academic Affairs<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">New <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placeType w:st="on">College</st1:placeType> of <st1:placeName w:st="on">Florida</st1:placeName></st1:place><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">5800 Bay Shore Road</st1:address></st1:Street><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sarasota</st1:City><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">, <st1:State w:st="on">FL</st1:State> <st1:postalCode w:st="on">34243</st1:postalCode></st1:place><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">941-487-4527<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">[email protected]<o:p></o:p></DIV><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p><DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><HR tabIndex=-1 align=center SIZE=2 width="100%"></DIV><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 4:09 PM
<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: <st1:personName w:st="on">Morris, Julie</st1:personName>
<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: jarvis rec red snapper plan<o:p></o:p></DIV><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">.<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 4:09 PM
<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To: <st1:personName w:st="on">Morris, Julie</st1:personName>
<SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: jarvis rec red snapper plan<o:p></o:p><P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Julie here it is sorry took so long just got back from fishing in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">La.</st1:place></st1:State><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fishing Accountability Recreational Private Sector<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">This plan is for over fished species<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Goals:1) Stop over fishing<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"></DIV><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal> 2) Identify effort and participation<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3) Accountability of species caught in over fished fisheries<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">4) prevent accountability measures and acl penalties to the private rec sector due
To over fishing the rec Tac by other sectors including its own.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">How?<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> 1) Fish tag system<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">2) Tag purchased for daily trips according to daily bag limit<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3) Tag is matched to angler by state license info on magnetic strip electronically
As tag is purchased ( technology similar to casino cards for data of gambling
Activities)<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">4) No more Tags issued till purchased tags redeemed (speed for data collection)<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">5) Tag attached to fish through mouth / out gills after fish is measured & measure
Put on tagged fish<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">6) If stopped by enforcement at sea or at the dock and marked tag is not attached
\ it is a violation
<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">7) Recommended penalties mirrored after existing FWC penalties are as follows
In a 1 year period
1st violation purchase no tags for 1 month
2nd violation purchase no tags for 6 months
3rd violation purchase no tags for 12 months
4th violation purchase no tags for 5 years<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Why? <P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> 1) Effort in fishing for snapper ,same info on tag that is on Salt water license <o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">2) All states need to have SW license some states can chose not to chargeafee<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> .<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3) Will show participation and effort<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
Now how the system will work<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1) Tags will be purchased at all locations that sell state salt water fishing license

2) No tags till old tags redeemed. This gives effort reporting in a faster time
Now in use (mrfss 10 to 12 months) gives number and pounds of fish caught.
In a 5 to 7 day period.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3) Tags can be redeemed in same location as purchased same day caught or
Mailed in for convenience ( 3 to 5 day time lapse.) better than 12 months<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">4) Tags can be redeemed at site of purchase so to buy additional tags for next
Days fishing or mailed in before any new tags issued to purchasing angler.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">5) Until initial tags bought are redeemed and validated ,that angler will not be
able to purchase any more tags ( electronic validation through swiped tag)
Each tag has <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = ns13 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:smarttags" /><ns13:place w:insAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:endInsDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z"><ns13:placeName w:insAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:endInsDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:placeName w:st="on"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">anglers</st1:placeName></ns13:placeName></st1:place><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> <ns13:placeType w:insAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:endInsDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z"><st1:placeType w:st="on"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">State</st1:placeType></ns13:placeType></ns13:place><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> license info electronically attached to tag.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">6) Length of fish marked on tag will be applied to pounds through established
Sample data collected for that species.( this is used already by NMFS)<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">7) The system can use whole inches , ½ inches or true length which ever is best.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">8) A small level of error can be used to account for miss measurement if needed<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">9) Any tags not returned for any reason can prevent angler fro getting a salt
Water license in his State until proof of tag is validated. In case of lost Tags
Validation can be a sworn affidavit. giving length and state license data that
Would have been on tag.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">10) A pattern of lost tags ( 3 sworn affidavits) would result in the suspension
For that season of purchasing any more tags.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">11) The Tags redeemed at purchase site would swipe tag to transfer angler
Angler info, then length of fish entered on prompt. This info sent
Electronically to NMFS ( real time) Then sell new tags to angler.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">12) For tags mailed in NMFS swipes tag then angler can be electronically
Cleared to by new tags ( 3 to 5 ) day lag time. Either way NMFS
Will have near real time to 1 week time for data collection.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">13) for the inevitable number of tags not redeemed the NMFS can make a
Set pound value for those tags based on the Average for redeemed tags
Thus used for ACL's management decisions on present season.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Value in this data collection system
<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1) Will protect the private recreational sector from over fishing in other
Sectors and any AM' penalties associated with that..<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">2) Will greatly reduce any over fishing in the private recreational sector
With near real time data, present system over fishing has occurred 7 out
Last 9 years including last year.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">3) As tags are sold and redeemed and pounds landed and recorded . As
The acl gets closer the NMFS can through Media and Outlet centers warn
Anglers of impending closure.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">4) NMFS can, if warranted reduce tags sales to one to slow effort to prevent
Over fishing the ACL on maybe the last 50,000 lbs available that season.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">5) This can be done by electronic tag issue equipment without retailers
Having to know the status of the ACL, the machine can allow only one
Per angler or none when ACL is reached.<P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">6) Cost of tags should be to pay for these cost only. Implement software.
Cost per unit for tags. Normal retailer fee in each state that they get for
<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><ns13:place w:insAuthor="Unknown" w:insDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z" w:endInsAuthor="Unknown" w:endInsDate="2009-02-20T16:18:00Z"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Normal</ns13:place><SPAN style="COLOR: black"> fishing license sales. Cost per unit for data collection( electronic)
Cheaper than present system.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> 7) No other cost associated with Tag ,NOT A FISH TAX<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Burdens to Fishermen<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1) <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">. 1) Have to buy tags at local retail or marinas prior to going fishing<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">2) The other burden is Pay to Play . It is still ones choice that all need toaddress ,it cost money to participate in any recreational endeavor .

3) To be held accountable on what he harvest from the Gulf. Follow the law and & report his fish (turn in tags) before returning to the gulf to harvest more of its resources.
<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Benefits to fishermen<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">1) Stop over fishing<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">2) Prevent further loss of fishing due to over fishing the private recreation total ACL's

3) Enhance the NMFS management decisions based on true fact not survey on all over fished species. ( program is usable for other species' as well.) <o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">4) Helps prevent management mistakes and gives anglers argument over divisive issues whichwe do not have now.<o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">5) True data on effort, participants , pounds, state, age etc. , this info allows social and economicinformation for the private recreational sector that is now not available. That is s supposed to be used in all NMFS management decisions.<o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV><o:p></o:p></DIV><P style="MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV>
 

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Stopped reading about half way down. Red Snapper, AJ's, Grouper, Trigger's = Gamefish. Let all those who do not care to fish eat talapia and catfish, can not tell the difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Backdown2, are you Gary Jarvis? Is this your plan?

I like it, there are severel problems with mine that you answered with you plan. Like lost tags. I like these 2 plans better in generalthan Capt Wes' plan (sorry capt wes, you're the man!) because it makes the tags more easily accessable to anglers than his. Tags should be easy and fast to get and not just be available for a 2 month period, or IMO just the boat owners responsibility.

All of this conversation about our problem with the NMFS is great! We need to come up with a plan that uses all of these ideas to serve anglers.
 

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Matt Mcleod (11/1/2009)Backdown2, are you Gary Jarvis? Is this your plan?



I like it, there are severel problems with mine that you answered with you plan. Like lost tags. I like these 2 plans better in generalthan Capt Wes' plan (sorry capt wes, you're the man!) because it makes the tags more easily accessable to anglers than his. Tags should be easy and fast to get and not just be available for a 2 month period, or IMO just the boat owners responsibility.



All of this conversation about our problem with the NMFS is great! We need to come up with a plan that uses all of these ideas to serve anglers.


I have been telling you that the people on the list aren't just looking out for their selves trying to look out for everyone



I am glad the tone is changing good work fellers.
 

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Dumb question time!!!! :doh Bare with my ignorance please.

How does anyone know how many tagsshould be made and distributed to outlets and Rec fisherman.

Will there be a way to figure out the impact to theSnapper?

How does anyone know how many Snapper can be harvested overall, if we don't know how many Snapper are out there?

It seems to me that you can collect all this data and still not know if the Snapper were overfished.

Are these great plans being put outa solution to1/2 the equation? The other half of the equation isthe ability to tell how much resource is out there, and what % can be harvested without declining the Snapper population.

How do the Alaska crab managers come up with poundage that can be harvested without overfishing?

I am all for any measure that will help out the fishery, and keep me and my boys fishing.

Sorry for the thinking out loud. :letsdrink
 
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