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<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><P align=center>A recent post got me to thinking on hunting, and I finally decided to voice my opinions on a few things. I'm sure I'll ruffle some feathers........so what. <P align=center>To start with I've noticed that it never fails rather here or any other forum, there are people that are so certain that the things they do are the best and better way of doing anything anyone else can, or does. For example......A guy posted on another forum a video of a buck that he stuck by a feeder in OK. The very first response was an accusatory, "Is it legal to bait in OK? I dunno, just askin'. That's really not hunting to me." Who cares? The man was legal and right for what he did. Shut up and enjoy the video. The very first response to Barnacle Brain's post about a club is why I started this thread. It's the same mentality I'm talkin' about. He was sincere in his inquiry and gets insulted and cut down immediately and grilled about his skills as a hunter. <P align=center>It seems it's always some guy from the same group of hunters that have cropped up over the last 10-15 years that beat their chest and pipe up first with the same crap. This may sound like hypocrisy before I'm through but I'm gonna turn the the finger towards these guys and their hunting style for a change.<P align=center>The way you choose to hunt is fine with me. Don't cut me for the way I do it. Manage your deer, grow your bucks like a bunch of tomato plants. Watch them year after year and say "I let him walk 'cause he just isn't big enough yet." yeh let him walk off that property and see how long he lasts. (Not unlike our state's redfish plan, Huh?) Then 3 years down the road shoot him from your warm cozy shootin' house an brag about your trophy tomato plant you "Hunted." Where is the skill in that? And what is the deal with point rules and spread rules? I know the states have them but at least they are reasonable.<P align=center>Deer should be taken when the opportunity arises, naturally. Deer hunting is about food not horns and heads on the wall. What are we teaching our kids about hunting. Are we saying that a man that works his arse off scouting and hiking and looking for deer shouldn't be proud of the 1 1/2 year old 4pt he stuck with his bow at 8 steps because he isn't big enough to mount. That it would be better to raise them almost like cattle and don't shoot them until you have something to show "off" for it. <P align=center>Barnacle Brain.....good luck with your search, but you may have shot yourself in the foot with the expression of your wants in hunting style. By this I mean, there are guys who say they are all for QDM (Quality Deer Management) and say "We need to shoot some does." Then get mad when people in their club do just that. A club will kill 10,15 does and people start getting all anxious." We ain't gonna have no bucks 'cause we're shootin' all the does!" All the does. People just don't realize the sheer number of deer there are. These people don't like folks like you and I in their clubs, but will never admit it 'cause they need your money first and foremost. <P align=center>If I could put my finger on the one thing I believe has hurt hunting more than anything in the last 20 years I would say it is, Jackie Bushman. The Buckmaster. Because of him hunting has become hugely commercialized. A lot of public land became lease land when the $$$ started to get thrown around,and a lot of leases are outrgeous to the point of unaffordable or impractical for the ordinary guy. Public lands are crowded as a result of these leases. I am by no means against leases. I love being able to hunt in an area I know isn't full of people. I've hunted in clubs for about nineteen years, at the same time I've been in the most crowded of all WMAs, St Regis Pasture, Champion Pasture, Bluewater Creek, take your pick of the name. <P align=center>I started out dog hunting when I was 7 with my Dad and brother. The Buckmaster had an unexpected effect on dog hunting also. As the number of hunters grew and the want for land along with it so did the hate for dog hunting. Guys who had never hunted until they were grown and knew only what they had seen on the TV on TNN now were in position to speak out on dog hunting and hunting styles, if you will, complaints grew more and more every year until the dog hunting was shut down. Yeh I know you can still dog hunt, but it's so regulated now and watered down it's not worth it. The hassles with non-dog hunters and nearby landowners aren't either. Bottom line on the lack of support for the dog hunter is this. Just how much hunting apparel do you think a dog man needs?None really. I guess you could get sponsors to paint your truck like NASCAR, with Ol' Roy dog food,and Texaco for the gas you burn up. Other than guns and ammo and dog food there isn't any money to be made in doggin'.<P align=center>It's called Hunting. Some times in some places it should be called shooting. There should be more work than just the work in planting food plots and building shooting houses and setting up feeders. At times I hate what it has become. I'll always love what it is.I'll never stop because of what ithas becomeand I'll keep on hunting the way, and where I do, and I won't criticize you for your choices and ask that you return the favor. Just a little common courtesy among men, that's all. <P align=center><P align=center><SPAN id=_ctl1_ctlTopic_ctlPanelBar_ctlTopicsRepeater__ctl2_lblFullMessage><P align=center></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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Collard (10/23/2007)<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><P align=center>I won't criticize you for your choices and ask that you return the favor. Just a little common courtesy among men, that's all.
<P align=center>I think that says it best.Different strokes for different folks.Thanks for the post.</BLOCKQUOTE>
 

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Thanks Collard for the time to put those thoughts into words.The firstresponse to my search for a lease membership was uncalled for but a good example of ignorance and prejudgement. The others were sincere and I understand that it is late in the season to get on a lease, but you never know so, so i reached out.

If indeed one pays attention to the biologists recommendation then they will thin the deer that the biologists reccommend. From the guys I know they don't want to take a shot on some dumb old doe when that big buck might be just around the next bush (especilly if you only have 2 days to hunt and need that time to stalk). I on the other hand will gladly shoot a doe with complete disregard for the wall hanger. I don't blame anyone for the trophy hunt, I applaud them. It is all part of the management. I wouldn't be able to honor the animal by mounting it so I won't waste it.

Thanks again.
 

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well put, i have been a dog hunter since i was able to walk. i do have to agree with your opinion on the whole jackie bushman era of hunting we are in now. but these are different times then 25 - 30 years ago, we are in the age of technology and bigger is better. this is the way people that we have let take the rains of our sport and run with it have brought us to.its jump on the band wagon or get left behind at this point.
 

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Collard I understand your point. Doing all the work at clubs from food plots to stand placement and even putting shooting house up is costly in time and money. I believe it is all part of what we call hunting. Bush hogging and scouting along trails is what makes it enjoyable to me. I don't have a problem with dog hunting as long as they are not running dogs on our property. There is a time and place for all of it. Listening to a race is very exciting as they are coming to you. Today the land is too small for people to run dogs and be courteous to the adjacent land owners. There are some places that dogs are needed where it is so thick you could not bust a deer out of them and even have a chance at a shot. The area of land would probably need to be isolated or an agreement with the land owners in the area would need to be struck. I do think there has been to mch emphases on size of rack only. A trophy is in the eyes of the beholder. We have young kids that hunt with us and a 60lb doe is truely a trophy. Plus it puts good meat on the table to enjoy the bounty that we have been given. I say if you enjoy it and it is legal have fun.
 

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Well said collard. I say if we all don't pull together the wacky animal lovers will win because we are conquering and dividing each other instead of fighting the tree huggers. So come together and take a stand for everyones right to hunt in any form they chooseif it is legal. Instead of the rich looking down on those less fortunate and not able to afford thousands of dollars in lease fees.
 

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In Alabama there is a fued between many hunters over "Doghunting". Every year there have been more restrictions put on doghunting due to the fight, and it's all among hunters. It is easy to see that any restriction on doghunting is also a restriction on HUNTING, and it is progress for the Anti-Hunting groups, as it is also a loss for all Hunters.

Collard your post is well written, and heed should be taken by everyone that reads it that enjoys what hunting is available to them, because it may not always be available as it is today. Just ask some of the older doghunters in Alabama. .

Great Post Collard.
 

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Very well Put Collard:clap

I think hunting has become such a big business, many have forgotton the true meaning, heritage.
 

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I could not agree more with your post. I am an avid hunter that applauds anyone for getting out and taking part in our great hobby. I myself am a "traditional" hunter in that I will only use a bow or muzzleloader, but that is how I was raised. I would never look down on someone for hunting with a rifle, use dogs, or do deer pushes (for those northern folk.)

I believe the great thing about this county is the freedoms we all enjoy and if we don't band together and fight to maintain those freedoms instead of restricting certain parts of them, we will loose them all, forever.
 

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Well said Collard....there are folks everywhere who talk crap but then you look up their personal info and there is none...by all means if I talk crap and folks don't like it they can call me because all my info is listed...I "usually" think beforeI type and others should do the same....

I have gotten more selective on deer I shoot, but that's because I have 3 youngins which 2 have shot deer, 1 hasn't. 1 has shot a SMALL buck but will have a chance to kill a wall hanger this next month at a ranch. My lease property has a few bucks and I let 1 walk the other day so 1 of my kids could have a chance to shoot it...I have always voiced my opinion onFlorida deer management (IT SUCKS) and would love to see doe-a-day like Alabama and maybe a forked horn or better rule to allow our deer to get better so "EVERYONE" could have a chance to kill a trophy...I generally do not have a problem filling my freezer with meat.

Good luck to everyone this season....:grouphug
 
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I disagree with about half of what the original author of this thread said, but I lack the time and the patience to write about it at this moment.

Regarding "horn" hunting, here are my views on it. First of all, yes, deer can be "grown" like a crop. And that is what makes it exciting-is putting in the work, man-hours, time, money, and resources into giving the deer the best possible habitat and nutrition you can afford. Mix in selective harvest, and some good genetics,and you have the makings for some really huge bucks. Now, when someone comes up to me and says "look at this monster I shot" and it's a little 10 pointer with G2's measuring 3 inches, G3's measuring 2 inches, (and so on) and an inside spread of 13 inches (saw one at my hunter's safety course), I am stricken with 2 emotions. First of all, if it's a young kid, and it's their first buck, then I am proud of him/her. But also in the back of my mind, I am also thinking "wow....you've got to be kidding me." Of course this doesn't happen often because I don't let stuff like that fly at my place. I want bucks shot that would make the covers of most hunting magazines. It's just like growing a prized pumpkin or something similar-you have a lot of control as to how big your "crop" gets, so why not let em' get as big as they possibly can? Generally when I don't respond to someone's post on this forum about their "huge buck" or "huge fish," it's cuz I completely disagree with their usage of "huge." Is it all relative? To me? Hell no. It's so much more realistic to say "oh this is my personal biggest snapper," or "this is my biggest buck to date," but dont call him a monster if he aint nothin but a damn basket racked schoolgirl buck or a 12 pound snapper. As far as I am concerned, the shooting of small bucks by adults is a joke. You'll see people write all the time "oh but I'm still waiting on the big one to step out..." hmm....maybe if you quit shooting them while they're juvenile/immature, you'll start to see some TRUE wallhangers. It's not a hard concept people. I waited over 6 years before we started seeing 130-150 class bucks on our property. There's plenty of does that need to be shot in the meantime, and I'm just hunting for meat anyways. If a biggun is dumb enough to step out, he's going down, and that's a great bonus for me. But honestly, I am content shooting does year round long. But meanwhile, I am still plantin high-quality food plots YEAR ROUND (half of people who call themselves hunters only plant in the fall-THEIR ANTLERS DONT EVEN GROW IN THE FALL!!) and lettin the young ones walk. Sorry for the lengthy post!
 

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Little Turnip (Collard) - Very "Well Written" and "On Point" on a variety of important subjects. !:clapOverall, I think the most important point you make is - different strokes for different folks.For me, I would preferto let a huge rack walk toadd to the gene pool; and take a doe for the table. The old big horned buck is not going to be very good eating; and one thing my dad taught me was "never kill anything you don't intend to eat."
 

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If a hunter is abiding by the law, all hunters should support him/her and their enjoyment of the sport.

Anti-Hunting groups are united and don't have internal differences, such as the opinions that make this thread make sense.The Anti-Hunting groups are not as large of a group as hunters as a whole (yet), but they will be strong due to their focus, and lack of division.

Hunt the way you like to hunt, and for the reason you like to hunt, with the limits of the law, but don't criticize, condemn, or complain about how any other law abiding hunter does the same. In the long run you as well as everyone else will benefit from each other.
 

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i really love the diversity of this forum, we have the entire spectrum covered. we have humble newbies just getting in to fishing or hunting, we have seasoned vets that know all, and many that just lurk to watch what kind of crap we will argue about next!:grouphug
 

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fishn4real (10/24/2007)Little Turnip (Collard) -For me, I would preferto let a huge rack walk toadd to the gene pool; and take a doe for the table.
The Kings Ranch in Texas has been studying the effects of Genetics in a deer herd as far as future antler growth, and their finds would shock most QDM idealist. A mature 31/2 year old buck can't breed the herd and actually will only breed less than 10 does in a season. Many times a mature buck will stay with a doe until she comes into season, and breed at the right time. Receptive season is less than 48 hours, how many does go through the cycle while he is tending the upcoming doe? Lots! So young bucks breed too, with yet to be seen good genetics.

They are proving the best practice is to protect the good genetics of the healthest does. The healthest does will raise a heavier buck, and the heavier/healthier buck will be able to contribute more nutrition to antler growth instead of having all his available nutrition go to growing his body size. That is why most nice racks are seen on 31/2 year old and older deer, because the 1st 3 years they were growing body and all the nutrition they took in went to that instead of antlers. Big Old Does will produce a better buck than an 11/2 year old baby girl.

They also ranked level of importance in rack development and it went kinda like this:

1. Age 2. Nutrition 3. Overall Health during spring and summer. and the jury is still out on genetics. But they have an idea that some of the large non-typical racks are produced by bucks with weaker genetics, that are supplied with superior nutrition foods.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
As far as I am concerned, the shooting of small bucks by adults is a joke. You'll see people write all the time "oh but I'm still waiting on the big one to step out..." hmm....maybe if you quit shooting them while they're juvenile/immature, you'll start to see some "As quoted from The BlueHoo"

Let's see, What was my original post about? :doh:banghead:banghead
 
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