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Old 07-16-2011, 11:06 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by LibertyCall View Post
No offense taken, Quig. Dissent makes for good discussion.

The flaw that I see in your reasoning is something that I see as one of the great lies we have pitched to our youth: the lie of specialness. Many young people think they are special or unique in a way that is important to the world. To your girlfriend, yes. To your mother, absolutely. But to the rest of the world, you are only as special as your ability to perform a function. In the military we call it "get the mision done", but every other business has the same idea with different words.

There is rarely only one "special" person to get the job done. So the "best person for the job" arguement falls flat. As an Officer lets say I have at my disposal 7 sailors who are all subject matter experts and excellent briefers. Why would I select the guy who has the potential to give a negative first impression? I won't. I owe it to the team to make the best decision for the team.

Our young people are woefully ill-prepared for the America we are handing them. A young person today really needs to understand restraint, savings, and dicipline. Unfortunately, my generation was taught excess, selfishness, and consumption, so we are not in a very good position to teach them.
I understand restraint and discipline... But I have never seen 7 EQUALLY matched people. One of them has to be better. And to me, looks don't matter. If the best briefer has a mohawk and face piercings, they are still the best. I understand your concern with image and first impression, but if said "mohawk person" walks in and blows the admin away with the presentation it merely reflects how great of judgement the person that sent them in had.
The military teaches the same course to the countless students. How much information a student retains and their ability to apply that knowledge is dependant upon that student. All people that took the "briefing" class have the same BASIC knowledge, but one has to be better. Wether a plan succeeds or fails, it is reflected upon their supervisor.
I want my supervisors to have a good opinion of me and therefore I only send the best! No matter their looks.

I love this! Great conversation!
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:10 AM   #112
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jlw1972... +1 (except the smile face tat hmmm...)lol
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:31 AM   #113
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Quote:
And to me, looks don't matter.
I understand what your saying. The problem is said person
Quote:
mohawk and face piercings
can not be taken seriously by the rest of society due to their [in your face] decisions to disfigure themselves.
That decision to disfigure themselves gets anything they have to say rejected. Sorry but that's the way it is.

On a personal note, when I see all the face piercings I wonder why they just didn't glue a Dildo to their forehead. It would be simpler and afford the same effect.

Well said Liberty Call.
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:39 AM   #114
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The military is all about discipline, structure, and order. If you have 7 people who can brief equally well, the one who has the right appearance is actually the best candidate. The guys in the big seats expect the standard, clean cut look or the brief won't fly. They are not going to say, "wow that was an excellent brief even though he looks like a ----------". Watch miss America or America's Got Talent and then tell us looks don't matter. Looks are just part of the deal. Even a great surgeon loses credibility if he looks like a construction worker.
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Old 07-16-2011, 11:58 AM   #115
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So "X" you are going to war and you have to chose between "mohawk" and "clean cut" to breif you. Both have the same education. Both have the same amount of time in the military. "Clean Cut" has been a desk jockey from day one. "Mohawk" has lived in the region where you will be fighting.

You are going to pick "clean cut" because you can't take "mohawk's" briefing seriously? I'll take "mohawk"! Once again, image has nothing to do with knowledge.
As for the dildo... U figure out what you want to do with it! lol
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:03 PM   #116
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whats wrong with looking like a construction worker? what does a construction worker look like? i think i resemble that remark bearing the scars and lines from a honest living, and i dont even have a tattoo. wasnt Jesus a carpenter?

the military adjusts their standards to fit their need for personel. right now they can afford a higher standard. it has not always been this way nor will it always remain this way.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:08 PM   #117
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or maybe not

Last edited by nextstep; 07-16-2011 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 07-16-2011, 12:57 PM   #118
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Since we have gotten the military involved why don't we just let 15 year old KIDS go off to war?
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:11 PM   #119
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Callme...it is what it is, regardless of what we want it to be.

Nextstep, nothing wrong with looking like a construction worker...if you work construction. I am not commenting on skill or personal integrity as looks do not determine that. I am commenting on the credibility a person has by first impressions.
The fact is, you should dress and look like the expectation of the person you are meeting with. I make this decision every day. If I am going to visit a senior adult in the hospital, I usually wear nicer clothes because I want what I say to be heard. To the contrary, if I am going to go hang out with a biker, I am not going to wear a suit and a tie, I'm going to wear my leathers. Who I am does not change at all, but how I relate may change because I care about the people I am with. I would call it respect. I do have a certain style but that style changes somewhat depending on the circumstances. I am normally very casual and I could care less what someone else looks like. However, most people don't think that way. They may not say it out loud, but what they see determines what they hear and think. To be sure, a surgeon that dresses like a construction worker would have a hard time keeping patients. Sometimes standing out is a good thing, sometimes it is not. The issue of a tattoo is that it is PERMANENT. Hair style and clothing are not.
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Old 07-16-2011, 01:47 PM   #120
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If my 15 year old wanted to get one i WOULD SAY HELL NO!!
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