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Old 10-02-2009, 08:17 AM   #121
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

As matter of fact I own both a 6 pack and a uscg coi vessel that carries up to 22 passengers. SO if you add the $350.00 USCG inspection fee per year my yearly expenseis now close to $415.00 per year and lets not forget the fcc safety cert which is another $350 every5 years so there is another $70 so now I am up to $485, say $500 per year. Now when you add drydocking and other maintenance someone could spend 10k each year but I would argue most of that is done by anyone who properly maintains their vessel not just a uscg coi and not just one carrying passengers for hire. Whilemost any vessel built in the U.S. canbe certified by the USCG and certainly a shrimp boat can be, I know of no one spending close to 10k each year to maintain USCG certification, it is certainly far from an average cost over the fleet. I might also add that due to my involvement nationally that I also doubt the avearge cost of maintaining any USCG certification of licenses and/orCOIs is any where close to 10k per year.

I also did not mention any namesof people who ED pays expenses for, if they haven't paid yours either directly or indirectly, you havemissed out.
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Old 10-02-2009, 08:39 AM   #122
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

Good morning Mr.Zales



I guess I missed out I am not here for the perks.



Still not simple to be in the for-hire is it. Which was the point of that post.



AND I think you know sector separation is on the councils agenda: And why your Gomar plans are to leave that part out. Its on the way no matter what. The rest of your plan is identical to the SOS plan.



THANK YOU



CAPT. EUGENE
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:15 AM   #123
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

yes sector separation is on the agenda for discussion along with discussion about alternatives to the recreational red snapper season. In all of this discussion some seem to be missing the reality of the harvest of red snapper this past summer and the impact it may have on the future of the rec rs season. Clearly, according to the mrfss, which by the way is what we are stuck with as data colection in the rec sector for most likely the next 5 years, says there were 1.6 million lbs of red snapper harvested in the 30 days of June alone. Does not include tx or headboat landings so that figure will be some higher. The data for the next 45 days of July and 14 days in aug is not available yet but common sense and knowledge of those days indicates at least another 1.6 million lbs with Tx and headboats so we are facing at least 3.2 million lbs, 700,000 over the 2.49 we are allocated. Now, since regardless of all the efforts by many of us includding the sos group and ED, any new logbook system is at least a couple to 3 years from being implemented and add another 2 to 3 before any data from such data system will be used and what do you have? Status quo management for the next 5 years.

Now you can split the for-hire from pri/rec split the shore from the rest and you still have the same data system for all. Since logbooks only work well as a census, 100% participation and state licesned vessels that fish on the fed regulated fish of rs will not be required to fill out logbooks, you then are back to estimations. I have worked as long as anyone in this or any other recreational fishery to change the data system and have devoted over 20 years to the effort and unfortunately, the reality is the process is extremely slow to change. When the final result of a logbook with only maybe 75% participation is in and the other 25% is estimated, tell me where that estimation produces any better data than where we are? Hopefully there will be compliance and hopefully there will be better estimations, but ask all you captain firends in the for-hire business, not a few or just the ones you know, all of them, and see how many will fill out a logbook and do so accurately. I am afraid you may find answers you don't like. Not being negative, just providing real honest opinions from many years of experience.

The only real fix is to amend the current laws regarding overfishing as until the overfishing requirements are relaxed, we are in serious trouble. After all, who really believes that in a fishery where 5 to 9 million pounds of red snapper are removed from the resource each year for the past several but the fishery continues to increase in biomass, where is the problem? Not for-hire, not commercial, not pri/rec, it is the management. Play with all the rest all you want but until the management process is fixed we will never see the light of day. Period.
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Old 10-02-2009, 09:28 AM   #124
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

[quote]bob II (10/2/2009)yes sector separation is on the agenda for discussion along with discussion about alternatives to the recreational red snapper season. In all of this discussion some seem to be missing the reality of the harvest of red snapper this past summer and the impact it may have on the future of the rec rs season.



Status quo management for the next 5 years. I hope not. the cutting fishing days anyway



Play with all the rest all you want but until the management process is fixed we will never see the light of day. Period.[/quote



This is Good stuff Mr. Zales :letsdrink
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:47 AM   #125
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

<DIV id=post_message_2328976>The below is from the Glouchester Times and was sent to me by Bob Jones, executive director of the Southeastern Fisheries Assocation. For all those who question the goal and purpose of ED and other enviro groups, pay close attention to this. SFA is a commercial assn and Bob is extremely smart. He also is of the same opinion as many of us in that if we all don't stand together as one and get legislation changed, we are done, period.


Fish panel 'public' talks not for public
By Richard Gaines
Staff Writer
October 02, 2009 05:44 am

With experts being flown in from other regions, the New England Fishery Management Council is holding a two-day workshop on catch shares, the bitterly debated method of privatizing fish stocks and granting harvesting rights, later this month at the venerable and pricey Mount Washington Resort in Bretton Woods, N.H.
The sponsorship by the council, an arm of the federal government, makes the event public. But while the workshop is thus open to all, the public has not been invited.
"The meeting is not intended for the public," according to an e-mail from the council in response to questions from a fishing industry member, "but there will be minimal space available for (public) observance of the meeting.
"We will have only 30 free seats available each day. The agenda will include a public comment period, but that, too, will be limited."
The workshop dates are set for Oct. 20 and 21, weeks after the council made modifications in the details of a catch share system it had approved in June for the groundfishery.
The choice of the resort, built early in the last century at the side of Mount Washington, the region's highest point, puts its far from the fishing ports along the coast at sea level, 2.5 hours from Portland, Maine, 3.5 hours from Gloucester and 5.5 hours from Point Judith, R.I.
"The purpose of the workshop is to share information and concerns about the use of catch shares ... and our target audience are our council members and staff (as well as others affiliated with the council)," council officials said in an e-mail.
Patricia Fiorello, spokeswoman for the council, said the workshop was organized not primarily for the edification of the public or the industry, but to help the council ? the federal legislative body for the New England fisheries ? gain a clearer understanding of catch shares.
She said about 55 people have confirmed their plans to attend.
But one invitee, Vito Giacalone, the Gloucester entrepreneur and industry innovator for the Northeast Seafood Coalition, said the workshop seemed to be badly timed ? falling after two years of debate leading to the creation of a catch share program for the groundfishery.
"Fire, ready, aim," he said.
The Seafood Coalition has organized 13 sectors that will work off catch shares.
The catch share debate partly centers on claims that aligning ownership with conservation aims will help preserve the stocks and provide a profit motive for the limited access to the privileged few granted catch share rights.
The other side of the debate is the concentration of equity, its emigration, consolidation and the disruption of cultures that reflect the dependence on locally owned fishing interests.
The scheduling of the event also puts it between two grassroots efforts by elements of the fishing industry to connect with its overseers.
A number of scallopers have obtained a meeting in Silver Spring, Md., with James Balsiger, the acting head of the National Fisheries Management Service on Oct. 14, while, on Oct. 30, contingents of groundfishermen from as far away as New Jersey are planning a mass protest at the regional headquarters in Gloucester of the National Marine Fisheries Service.
Both protests are in reaction to catch share programs that are in the process of implementation.
At Bretton Woods, the featured guest speaker is Monica Medina, a private contractor who is being paid more than $100,000 a year to direct a "Catch Share Task Force." Medina's group is expected to report to Jane Lubchenco, who heads NMFS' parent, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, on months of interviews about opportunities to convert traditional fisheries into catch shares.
Medina was chief counsel for NOAA in the Clinton administration, before moving to the Pew Environment Group during President George W. Bush's terms. She was on the search committee that proposed Lubchenco, an alpha academic scientist and stalwart of both Pew and the Environmental Defense Fund before her nomination to head NOAA.
A controversial subject which has come to dominate federal fishery policy and politics, catch shares are lauded as a near panacea for the economic and ecological problems facing the nation's fisheries by many environmental groups, notably the Environmental Defense Fund and Pew.
They were debated and assembled as a new economic and conservation system for the groundfishery of New England over the past two years. The pivotal meeting was in June in Portland, where the council approved the conversion of the fishery into sectors or harvesting cooperatives that will be granted catch shares; those fishing boats that eschewed the sectors will fish in a common pool under the same effort control system ? days at sea, closed areas and daily catch limits ? in place now.
The Environmental Defense Fund is indirectly involved in the sponsorship of the event.
The event is expected to cost between $20,000 and $25,000, split between the council, which whose budget comes from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and Duke University's Fisheries Leadership &amp; Sustainability Forum and the Gulf of Maine Research Institute. According to its Web site, the Duke forum is a joint partnership with the the Environmental Defense Fund and Stanford's Wood Institute.
Coming from Duke is a party of three, including Amy Schick Kenney, who is married to Justin Kenney, the former communications director for the Pew Environment Group who was hired by Lubchenco to head NOAA communications.
Kenney is the support director for the forum.
Three present and former officials in the Pacific Fishery Management Council are being flown in to discuss catch share programs on the West Coast.
All invited guests will have their costs paid by the council, which received a government rate for the rooms in the Mount Washington Hotel, a National Historic Landmark opened in 1902 which "immediately became a favorite summer haunt for poets, presidents and princes," according to the hotel's Web site.
No press release accompanied the e-mail announcement of the workshop that passed through elite and well-connected fishing circles in the past week.
Rooms for the conference are approximately twice the cost for accommodations at the circuit of business-class hotels used by the council for its regular working meetings.
Richard Gaines can be reached at [email protected]
Copyright © 1999-2008 cnhi, inc. </DIV><DIV style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px" align=right>[img]/ttmbforum/images/misc/progress.gif[/img]</DIV>
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Old 10-02-2009, 11:48 AM   #126
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

Here is another email sent to me from Bob Jones and is communication between he and Jim Donofrio. As you can see they both agree, if we do not stand as one, all ocean users, we are done. What you see here is people of different sectors who have traditionally fought one another, not new comers, people who have fought the battles for many years, are now trying to come together so we can all survive. The issue is not about how much this group gets vs the other group as if you take all away from either the one group still does not fish very much. The issue is the regulations and the regulators out of control. Until the law is fixed and the regulators have oversight and the data is fixed, it makes no difference if for-hire get their own, pri.rec get their own, commercial get their own. As long as we continue to fight each other we will be taken down one at a time. The strength is numbers and far more than commercial, for-hire, and pri/rec can provide. The public who uses, consumes, and enjoys the resource must jump in.


Jim,

PEW has no qualms about banning fishing whether it's commercial or recreational. They want the catching and "killing of their public resource" to be reduced to a very low level or stopped altogether.

The Pew Conspiracy is composed of people against fish harvesting. They are in control of the federal process. If the commercial and recreational industry and all businesses that rely on us for part of their bottom line don't get involved, we are history. I've fought the cultural genocide against my members for over four decades. You and your members are now in the same spot we are in. Working together we have a chance. If we work against each other it's all over. It's that simple.
Bob

In a message dated 10/2/2009 9:47:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jimdrfa writes: <BLOCKQUOTE>These PEW bums want to kill fishing in the USA
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px" align=right>[img]/ttmbforum/images/misc/progress.gif[/img]</DIV>
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:50 PM   #127
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

i stand corrected I forgot snapper season went out in August this year. I also whole heartedly agree we all need to ban togther to stop the over regulation of bottom fish and the allocation of Snapper to the charter boys . I would like to see a people also take into account that it is not just snapper that is the problem down here. For instrance LA has no limit on Wahoo which are a highly migratory fish that we all enjoy catching and eating. All of the worlds Tunas including the Blackfin are in trouble not to mention the lack of Dolphin regulations in most of the gulf states. I understand that bottom fishing is the only fishing that most of the people in the area participate in I would be more than happy to help anyway I can however we all need to realize that the gulf concil is nor interested in saving the gulf they are interested in saving which every species is bring the highest market value price consitantly. I am willing to help combat this legislation as I am sure most would be if they where aware mabe we need to secure someway to get this into the public veiw. Anyway i dont have all the answers but I am wiling to help. Sorry about the Idot remark but it is very frustrating to me to watch these guys get away with it because they are locals.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:23 PM   #128
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

Quote:
bob II (10/2/2009)Here is another email sent to me from Bob Jones and is communication between he and Jim Donofrio. As you can see they both agree, if we do not stand as one, all ocean users, we are done. What you see here is people of different sectors who have traditionally fought one another, not new comers, people who have fought the battles for many years, are now trying to come together so we can all survive. The issue is not about how much this group gets vs the other group as if you take all away from either the one group still does not fish very much. The issue is the regulations and the regulators out of control. Until the law is fixed and the regulators have oversight and the data is fixed, it makes no difference if for-hire get their own, pri.rec get their own, commercial get their own. As long as we continue to fight each other we will be taken down one at a time. The strength is numbers and far more than commercial, for-hire, and pri/rec can provide. The public who uses, consumes, and enjoys the resource must jump in.


Jim,

PEW has no qualms about banning fishing whether it's commercial or recreational. They want the catching and "killing of their public resource" to be reduced to a very low level or stopped altogether.

The Pew Conspiracy is composed of people against fish harvesting. They are in control of the federal process. If the commercial and recreational industry and all businesses that rely on us for part of their bottom line don't get involved, we are history. I've fought the cultural genocide against my members for over four decades. You and your members are now in the same spot we are in. Working together we have a chance. If we work against each other it's all over. It's that simple.
Bob

In a message dated 10/2/2009 9:47:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Jimdrfa writes: <BLOCKQUOTE>These PEW bums want to kill fishing in the USA
</BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style="MARGIN-TOP: 10px" align=right></DIV>
What a lot of people out there don't realize is PEW Foundation is backed by billions of dollars. Ever heard of Sun Oil Co, or Sunoco. The name PEW comes from Joseph Newton Pew founder Sr.of Sun Oil Co. If the name sounds familiar to a lot of you that's because a lot of you are NASCAR fans and you see their logo Sunoco Official Fuel NASCAR while watching the races.</DIV></DIV>Not only does PEW want you out of the waters they are working on Wilderness Protection and Public Lands also. So get ready for hunting next. Go to their website and see what all they have their hands in. http://www.pewtrusts.org/</DIV></DIV>Now what I would like to know is what is Sunoco's hidden agenda in gettingfishermen off the waters and hunters out of the wilderness. PEW is a non profit organization so they are not going to gain anything so that would leave their backer Sunoco. What's in it for them?</DIV></DIV>Next question. I wonder how Sonoco would feel if everyone went after NASCAR and decided to boycott because they use their fuel. Boy Oh Boy that would be a swift kick in the pants for them now wouldn't. Just imagine the money they would loose. </DIV></DIV>This is how big this situation is and if we all don't join in TOGETHER for the fight we will loose. They are using the divide and conquer strategy and from what I'm seeing it is starting to work. Don't let it happen.</DIV>
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:43 PM   #129
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

Quote:
capt.eugene (10/2/2009)That is good to know But the link does not seem to work
http://www.pewtrusts.org/

Those are a bunch of nut jobs right there.<H3 class="replace subHeader">History</H3>

The Pew Charitable Trusts, an independent nonprofit, is the sole beneficiary of seven individual charitable funds established between 1948 and 1979 by two sons and two daughters of Sun Oil Company founder Joseph N. Pew and his wife, Mary Anderson Pew.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:47 PM   #130
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Default RE: Save our Sector (SoS) charter boat plan update

Thank youTelum I went back in and fixed the link.
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