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Old 11-25-2009, 10:57 AM   #21
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Not to derail the thread but one important aspect of snapper mortality is shrimping, we need to also boycott shrimp according to research 70% of red snapper mortality is caused from the shrimping industry, i have personally cut my consumpution of shrimp way back
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:05 PM   #22
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Steel Hooked

I want you and all the other fishermen and women to think about the statement you just made about shrimping killing red snapper on a big level. In the 1990's we all saw big shrimp boats daily while we were out fishing for bottom fish. Now we hardly ever see one whether we are right off the beach or even 30 to 40 miles out and further off the Alabama and northwest Florida coast. Federal regulations, the use of Teds,fuel and insurance costs, and the shrimpers inability to compete with foreign imports have literally driven the big Gulf shrimp fleet to extinction. Sure there are a token few but not on the scale that your statement suggests. I am not associated with the industry at all. I do know people who were in it and through the years have watched as they were brought to their knees financially.

This resembles what is happening in the recreational fishing in the Gulf. I don't have all the answers but I know that we as a block-Recreational and the Charter industry if united as one front standing together could be a massive force to be reckoned with. As long as the NMFS can splinter us we are weak. I can't blame the charter industry as they are being choked out of existence for trying to save their businesses and their way of life anymore than I as a recreational fisherman want my right to fish to be preserved. Their data is flawed they know it and we know it. We as recreational fishermen and women have 2 battles which need to be addressed and one is that every time they take something from us they increase the commercial side somehow. 13" inch snapper- year round fishing and the ability to keep a poundage of undersize grouper on each trip and call it by-catch are just some of the gimme's the commercial sector has managed to land in the last few years. Let you or I have a fish 1/2 inch to short and they will fine us- that sucks. The commercial sector loves these new rules.

JUST MY OPINION.:usaflag:usaflag:usaflag:banghead:banghead :banghead


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Old 11-25-2009, 12:28 PM   #23
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Sounds like we are talking here about some ENRON sh*t.

1. Shut down all reef species fisheries. Which in turn:

a. Forces charter and commercial sectors out of business due to the severe reduction of Total Allowable Catch and short seasonsmaking it non-profitable to continue a business, therby forcing them (now willingly) to sell off their reef permits (which will now have zero value) to the highest bidder, which will be the capital investors of this scheme, for pennies on the dollar. Makes me wonder why they would want to own a permit that is worth nothing if you can't keep a fish you catch? Something deceitful going on here?

b. Makes private recreational fishing less attractive because of the extreme costs associated with fishing in such a restricted environment that you can no longer bring any fish home with you. The now absurd cost/reward ratio imakes fishing for food so cost prohibitive that it stops nearly everyone but the sport fisherman fromfishing forany species.

c. This has now systematicly stoppedalmost 100 % of fish being taken from our waters and has basicalyput a quantum figure on how much of this harvestable rescource is available for harvest. Control the amount of rescource and you can control the price.

d. Now that you holdall of the permits that allow any taking of any reef species, you sit on them for a season or two.

c. Now with solid scientific proof of the fish count (no harvest therefore complete stock recovery), you lobby (bribe) the fishery management agencies to re-open the fisheriesto an agreed upon TAC for all species. Now, like the Alaskan crab fisherie, only a specific amount of rescource can be taken to the market.

2. Now you have TOTALLY cornered the Market.

a. You have eliminated all competition

b. You own all of the permits allowing harvest.

c. You have a set number of lbs of rescource that is sellable.

d. You decide how many (very restricted) shares of this massive takeover of our public rescource will be issued for trade on the open market while keeping at least 51% of the shares of this grossly devalued commodityfor your own evil self.

e. You sit back and watch the bid wars begin on the trading floorand watch your shares turn into pure gold as the corporate commercial fishing industry mega-giants try to out bid each other in order to have sole rights of harvest so they to can now regulate market price with NO competition.

Sorry, I've had too much coffee this morning and may have this entirely all wrong but the letter posted by JoeZ sure stirred up the paranoia in me.

Something wayyyy bigger than fish stocks is going on here. I have thought all along that this smells like huge corporatebusiness to me
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:17 PM   #24
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Quote:
Capt.Eugene (11/24/2009)

Below is the SOS plan I still don't see IFQ's mentioned the plan
[/b]

Capt Eugene,

Here's a quote from SOS originator Gary Jarvis - seems like a LOT of the SOS guys are not well-informed on exactly what they are promoting.

Gary Jarvis: "This form of reallocation of catch shares through commerce instead of political reallocation <U>is what makes the SOS charter for hire plan so appealing to Charter for hire fishermen.</U> We want to be accountable with a real time data collection system and we want our historical catch TAC for our separate sector. And that accountability will allow the Gulf Council to allow the purchase , leasing and trading of snapper and grouper IFQ's between the commercial sector and charter for hire sector. And all of those fish leased or bought will be caught by recreational fishermen."
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:28 PM   #25
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Default RE: A position on SOS

CAPT Eugene,

do the facts before you regarding EDF intent make any difference in your opinion on SOS?

Mark W
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:09 PM   #26
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Quote:
markw4321 (11/24/2009)
Quote:
Fairwaterfishing (11/24/2009)


The thought of working a real job would really cut into my deer hunting and family time.
That's a pretty cocky statement for someone who makes a living off a public resource with some here as customers who work "real jobs".

Usually I am pretty sympathetic but the above statement makes me decidely less so, whenit comes to understanding the needs ofmen who are in a business and needto feed their families.

Mark W


Its not cocky Mark its the truth. Back when I made a decision on what I wanted to do for a living I had to consider many factors. My number one factor is quality of life, number 2 is just how much moneydo I need to live the way I want. I have two older brothers that work in very high end and very stressfull Jobs. Oh yea they make way more money than me, hell they have to, big houses, and private schools cost alot. Im sorry but working for the man does not intrerest me. Also working myself to the bone to where Im way too tired to enjoy life does not intrerest me.

I grew up in Jay Florida where my dad owned a Crop Dusting business. We worked 5 days a week durring the summer Spraying crops and 2 days a week taking people fishing. Durring the winter I went to school and went deer hunting. I am sure glad school is over so I can deer hunt more. The only times in my life that I have ever worked in the winter is when I was in school and after the hurricanes when there was plenty of work to be had, and my season was cut short and needed the money bad.

Its takes big balls to work for yourself and real big balls to work for yourself in any seasonal business. This is my life, this is all I know, work your ass off in the summer and lay off in the winter.

Now you know a little about me, what you do for a living Mark?
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:10 PM   #27
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Quote:
JoeZ (11/25/2009)
Quote:
why1504 (11/25/2009)Today it's all about the Benjamin's and redistribution of wealth.



Tomorrow, the fishes rights will be more important than your rights. Catch one and they will sue you.



Thank God for the Progressives. The change you voted for.


Yeah, Obama started this.

Try again.


The Progressives were in control before Obama.
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Old 11-25-2009, 08:34 PM   #28
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Default RE: A position on SOS

CAPT Ard

I am a retired Navy pilot so I don't know anything about hard work or "big balls". mom and dad were the same waywith respect to not knowing anythingabout hard work as they both came off escambia county alabama cotton farms and as they told it the mule did all the plowing.

As a second careerI continue to dabble in work for the us government (military).

So how about you CAPT Ard are you still enamored with EDF and a CONAGRA of the gulf approach to fishery management? Is it really all about the highest bidder?

Mark W

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Old 11-25-2009, 11:21 PM   #29
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Quote:
markw4321 (11/25/2009)CAPT Ard

I am a retired Navy pilot so I don't know anything about hard work or "big balls". mom and dad were the same waywith respect to not knowing anythingabout hard work as they both came off escambia county alabama cotton farms and as they told it the mule did all the plowing.

As a second careerI continue to dabble in work for the us government (military).

So how about you CAPT Ard are you still enamored with EDF and a CONAGRA of the gulf approach to fishery management? Is it really all about the highest bidder?

Mark W
Sounds like your bitter, sorry about that. My big balls commit was not at all a jab at you or your family but what it takes for people to go out on there own with there on business. A risk that can sometimes be beneficial with profit or time off to live life to the fullest with family and sport. A risk that sometimes finds you living in a tent for 4 months in Abita Springs, La. wakeing up to a chain saw to make your livelihood a reality.Also a risk that lets me wake my little boy up for school then go hunting the rest ofthe day, then read him a story at bed time every night. People like myself that decide to do for a living what they love, sometimes have to go through adversity so that they can live there American dream. I do take a lot of risk and work extra hard in my seasonal job, I like it that way, I actually thrive in it.

As far as my choice for a management plan goes. Pretty much anything would be better than what we are faceing in the coming years. If the federal waters are shortened any more or closed all together in the catching of red snapper, all the talk about SOS plan or any other doesnt really matter much does it? The talk of a one month season and or 1 snapper limit has nothing to do with SOS or EDF. It has to do with government interaction, mismanagment, and flawed data. It also has to do with a stand off between the federal government and the states. So yes I am open to listen to ideas that might give me a stable season.

I am making plans now to stay in the fishing business, I own another 34 foot boat without a federal permit to be able to fish in state waters if Florida opens there snapper season and the feds close. I may also buy a smaller boat to inshore fish. If it ever goes to catch shares I am prepaired to buy shares. I am pro active in my business and will change and do what everit takes to stay fishing for a living. I could just make a living just doing 4 hour trolling trips, along with catch and release red snapper trips. There are many ways of making a living in the fishing business. In tourist towns which we live in people will always want to go fishing, I will be there to take them.

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Old 11-26-2009, 06:45 AM   #30
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Default RE: A position on SOS

Mr. Ard,

Let me be crystal clear here, there is no bitterness here at all with respect towhere I come from and what my family has achieved and will contine to achieve.

What I am bitter about is SOS and all that goes with it.

Iappreciate yourstory about the chainsaw, tentand your family and all andIrespect a man's desires to build a family and support them.

However, when reading the storyI get the sense that you think you are somehow special and different than the rest of us because you work hard, the life experiences you have had, your business acumen, and of course your "big balls".

If that is what works for you and motivates you I recommendyoukeep believing it just that way.

From my life experiences, I can tell you thateveryonereading here and theirfamilies have gone through or will go through hardtimes when they don't know if they are going to make it or not. That's called life.



Mark W
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