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Old 03-05-2010, 10:56 PM   #11
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

Kind of pisses me off admiral ben. But I need to go have early morning quail hunting trip planned sure we will chat more later on. You can call me "commander" if you like.

Mark


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Old 03-05-2010, 11:37 PM   #12
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

Again not true Mark., SOS is a concept, I suggest we meet for a true, factual meeting, I don't care if it pisses you off!
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:47 PM   #13
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

So Mark, are against Florida opening up snapper season in state waters and doing what Texas is doing? You would vote against Florida having a 120 to 150 day red snapper season with in 9 miles? Just wondering where you stand?
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:58 PM   #14
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

I was born in Penscola, raised in Pensacola. live in Pensacola. learned to fish on the orginial wooden Pensacola Beach fishing pier! Commander Mark , I am not a transfer! SoS is not asking for 60% of the RecreationalQuota! Learn the facts! Good luck Quail hunting! I will be working for the true, factual,no non sense answer to our fishing issues. Meeting with our leaders Monday to help with a solution. Hope to hear yours!

Ben Fairey
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Old 03-06-2010, 01:19 AM   #15
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

Quote:
The Admiral (3/5/2010)I was born in Penscola, raised in Pensacola. live in Pensacola. learned to fish on the orginial wooden Pensacola Beach fishing pier! Commander Mark , I am not a transfer! SoS is not asking for 60% of the RecreationalQuota! Learn the facts! Good luck Quail hunting! I will be working for the true, factual,no non sense answer to our fishing issues. Meeting with our leaders Monday to help with a solution. Hope to hear yours!

Ben Fairey
Mr. Fairey,

According to the SOS website, the first item on the list is "Secure Our Allocation" (strange, as all you hear from the SOS guys is that it's all about accountability, but for some reason accountability is not #1 on the list). There has to be some idea of what % allocation your guys are wanting to secure - please tell us what it is. There are guys over on the 2Cool board (such as Levelwind) saying that the CFH split should be somewhere between 60-70%. Also, how can you determine any % split realistically? Using the "fatally-flawed MFRSS data"? In my opinion, we should be focusing 100% on obtaining better data - period.

It is my opinion that sector separation is simply setting the stage for implementing catch shares in the recreational sector. What's your take? According to EDF, the "tremendous success" of the commercial IFQ program is justifying the expansion of the IFQ concept, or catch shares, into the recreational sector. To quote EDF's Pam Baker; "The Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council is on the right track by considering IFQs and other catch share plans for many of its other commercial and sport fisheries that are in dire need of better management". Since EDF has partnered with the SOS group to separate the recreational sector, it seems to me that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out 2 + 2 here.

There is no need for sector separation to provide accountability - require all CFH boats to have electronic logbooks and require all private recreational fishermen to implement catch cards or reef-fish stamps. This will go a LOOONG way in getting us where we need to be without privatizing our public natural resource or re-designing our fishing infrastructure.

Thanks in advance,

Tom
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Old 03-06-2010, 02:08 AM   #16
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

"require all private recreational fishermen to implement catch cards or reef-fish stamps."

Who is sponsoring this? I have not heard one RECREATIONAL PERSONstand up at a gulf council meeting where this stuff is addressed and say give us reef-fish stamps or catch cards so we can be accountable. Is this just computer PFF talk or for real. For real takes getting out of the house and taking a stand. I want to see Recreational talk about being accountable other than keyboard talk. The One thing SOS does stand for is Accountability. Show Me Yours.
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:32 AM   #17
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

Mr. Hilton,

My personal opinion on "Catch Shares" is that at this time I am neutral. A for-hire or Recreational catch share has not been explained or defined from the NMFS. So before I can make a educated decision I want to see what a for-hire catch share really is?So, I think it is premature to make opinionson catch shares now but would like for it to work through the process so we can have the opportunity to see exactly what the end result will be and then make a informed decision. Catch Shares have to come to referundum so I will continue to stay informed.

I agree with you Logbooks are a critical piece of the puzzle for the CFH. I normally do not partcipate in forums but Markw had a issue with me that I thought needed to be addressed. I type so slow it is painful. But I invite anyone to get in touch with me andIwould appreciate the opportunity to have a professional,respectful conversation on the fishing management issues facing our industry.

Capt. Ben Fairey

Charterboat Necessity
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:32 AM   #18
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

I love this "the admiral" guess that is like a navy guy who is paid to be incharge of a fleet that he does not own so Ben is the paid capt for the boat that is owned by Dr. Barnes. How interesting that edf is looking to hire a new manager to run their GOM operations to take fishermen off the water. Apparently Jeff Barger hasn't produced for edf otherwise they would not need to find some else.

Ben talks about the facts, lets talk. sos supports sector separation, they support further divisions of the recreational sector to further divide us into smaller groups so we will all be easy to take out. How about the myth that sos will fast track to better data for the for-hire boats, NOT TRUE> The mrip process is currently working to create a better data system, in factthere is a proposal fora logbook system currently in the process of being funded andworking to be implemented by June 1. There are other data programs being worked on to gain better data from the pri/rec recs. These all areongoing WITHOUT sector separation. There was once the concept by sosers that a vms was necessary to track all for-hire vessels, they have now come around to understand that a vms is not the only way to determine when a boat leaves and returns to the dock nor is a vms the only was to verify this information.

The sosers will tell you about all the new signers to their concept and that over 15% of the fed permit owners are signed on, again NOT TRUE, while they have several "captains" listed on their site, like "the admiral" Ben, he does not own a permit, he is a hired captain. There are many others on the site that are also hired captains, in some cases deckhands working forthe real captain and guess what if the dh/capt does not agree to sign on he looks for another job. Now also, there are some people listed on the site who originally signed on but have since found out that the sos plan is not what they were told and have requested their names be removed. Their names are still there.

Another new concept and this came from communication between Mike Rowell from OB and jarvis where jarvis told him that the charter/commercialred snapper ifq owners and the commercial red snapper ifq owners supported thatonce the red snapper tac reached 9.12 million pounds again that they would then support have all futre increases in TAC given to the recreational sector! In other words these red snapper ifq owners will be happy with a quota of just 4.5 million pounds forever. While this is an interesting concept and actually one similar that some with CCA have proposed, it does not strike me as fully supported by all the red snapper ifq owners, especially the fish house onwers who own ifq. One reason for this concept is that the red snapper ifqowners could then keep the price of red snapper high, keeping leasing prices high, keeping the consumer pirces high, thus screwing the little guy who wants good fresh seafood at a reasonable price. Now for the charter/commercial red snapper ifq owner like jarvis, it is the best of all worlds, he gets high dollar for his commercial red snapper shares, and get more days charter fishing, how great is that???? While the regular charter guy and private angler get more days fishing those who "own" the commercial red snapper really do great.

If you pay attention to all the stuff coming out of the woodwork of sos, we learn a little more every day, you find that sos is about the small few who want to profit and benefit for themselves and screw their buddy in the process.

For thise who have not seen the many reports about he highly successful March on Washington, it was a tremendous success. Over 5,000 people from every coastal state including Alaska, from all sectors commercail and recreational, from supporting businesses, and community leaders, all standing together "UNITED" not separated, for a common goal of survival and to be able to continue to enjoy our resources. It gained more congressional attention that any effort ever. We have created a new dawn in fisheries in this country and you will see good changes soon. Some will take longer but we are very optimistic that we will see new things from congress and new activities from the managers. This effort would not have succeeded as separate groups. In fact, edf was so concerned they sent their folks, jarvis, krebs, and several others to DC to counter the effort by thousands. It did not work, which is another reason I suspect edf is looking for a new gulf manager.

Pay attention, study the facts and they are every where all you have to do is google and you can find all the info on your own. You don't need me or "the admiral" to tell you. Facts are facts period. When researching, ask Dr. Crabtree to provide you with a scenario, we have requested such and he has not provided it, to tell you if we had sector separation:

1. how many ways will the rec sector be split (pri/rec, charter 6 pak, charter more than 6, headboat, state licensed boat)

2. once you know how many ways, then what percent of each species (grouper, snapper, kings, amberjack, tunas) will each group get? Tell us what % of these fish will pri/recs get, what % will charter 6 pak get, what % headboats will get, etc)

Once this info is provided then reasonable people can decide on their own if they feel it is good for them or not. Coming from crabtree, will eliminate info from me or jarvis or "the admiral" (who really speaks from jarvis), but it comes from the horses mouth. We feel that this is a reasonable request but apparently crabtree does not want to put such info out for the public. He wants people to buy into sector separation the find out what it will do. Isn't it better to know before you buy something what you are paying for????
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Old 03-06-2010, 01:33 PM   #19
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

Quote:
Fairwaterfishing (3/6/2010)"require all private recreational fishermen to implement catch cards or reef-fish stamps."

Who is sponsoring this? I have not heard one RECREATIONAL PERSONstand up at a gulf council meeting where this stuff is addressed and say give us reef-fish stamps or catch cards so we can be accountable. Is this just computer PFF talk or for real. For real takes getting out of the house and taking a stand. I want to see Recreational talk about being accountable other than keyboard talk. The One thing SOS does stand for is Accountability. Show Me Yours.
Howdy,

I have been to several Gulf Council meetings over the last 4-5 years and each time I have given written and verbal testimony for the record.

We will be submitting a Plan to Council at next month's meeting regarding accountability for private recs, CFH, AND the NMFS itself.

Tom Hilton
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Old 03-06-2010, 04:00 PM   #20
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Default RE: Job - EDF Fisheries Conservation Manager-recreational catch shares in Gulf

Personally I have always liked the below plan. Had a chance to discuss it in detail and make inputs into it at a meeting in in Pensacola a couple of years ago. Understand it has been updated now to include an option for Charter VMS and e-logbooks. note there is no requiremnet for a separate CHF sector

For Captain Ard -to answer your question - For me personally - given a yes or no choiceto fish Florida State waters for snapper where CFH could not or the option to have a divided recreational sector-

I personally would rather stand with you and other charter operators and not fish snapper in state waters than to have a divided sector under the save our sector plan.

As I stated before I really believe we are on the edge of the cliff of catch shares etc. EDF's involvement with the SoS plan and EDF's drive for catch shares is only pushing us closer to catch shares which will be bad for us all in the end.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RECREATIONAL FISHERY MANAGEMENT PROPOSAL
for GULF of MEXICO REEF FISH


Presented by

A COALITION of FOR-HIRE and PRIVATE
RECREATIONAL ANGLERS FISHING the GULF of
MEXICO

January 1, 2009

This proposal is an extensive plan that provides new management alternatives for the federal
recreational (for-hire ?FH? and private recreational ?PR?) reef fish fishery in the Gulf of Mexico
(GOM). It was developed with input from many individuals (private and professional) to provide
a plan that will encompass the total federal recreational reef fish fishery while dramatically
improving current fishery data collection. This plan is multi faceted which will require several
stages of implementation that will ultimately provide real time data for all reef fish targeted by
recreational anglers in the GOM. The plan should be adapted to the data needs of the National
Marine Fisheries Services (NMFS) to be able to better manage the reef fish fishery, to control
overfishing based on improved real time data, to provide realistic fishery effort and catch data to
provide the NMFS the proper tools to address accountability measures, useable catch limits, and
improved stock assessments.
This proposal is not intended to be all inclusive and should be implemented with the ability to
modify the plan to fit current and future regulatory, legal, data needs, and stock assessment
requirements. It is specifically intended to provide new, forward thinking ideas to bring fishery
data, fishery management, stock assessments, angling ethics, and all recreational anglers into the
21st century. The goal of this proposal is to begin the process of implementation upon immediate
receipt of and discussion by the Gulf Of Mexico Fishery Management Council (Council) so that
some aspects of the proposal will be effective during the 2009 season. We realize that the
management process takes time and has legal requirements but we also feel that the current
process will allow for immediate implementation of some of our suggestions.
THE PROPOSAL
This proposal establishes a new Gulf of Mexico Angling Reporting System (GOMARS1) that will
initially require reporting information on red snapper with a web based and/or telephone reporting
system. Subsequently, a logbook reporting and if demonstrated the need exists a simple
electronic (AIS, mobile phone, web based, or other simple and unobtrusive reporting device)
system to report departing and returning to port could be implemented. The GOMARS will allow
1 Implementation of the GOMARS will require immediate action by the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council (GMFMC)
and/or the NMFS to implement a plan amendment to the current reef fish management plan to establish this angler reporting system
with all the legal requirements to ensure the regulation is required. The NMFS will have to also fast track this amendment for
implementation. In order to expedite the reporting system we suggest utilizing the interim rule process. We recommend that all states
be encouraged to require this system within their state waters for anglers wishing to target reef fish.
<DIV align=right><DIV align=right>Page 2</DIV></DIV>
for easy expansion to other reef fish species as well as other targeted species. It will also be
simple to use on vessels of all sizes and capacities. The proposal also suggests and encourages
coordination between the federal government and the states in identifying users and collecting
data, suggests angler and/or vessel aggregate harvest limits to reduce unnecessary discards thus
increasing stock biomass, should reduce interaction with other species such as marine mammals,
provides for real time regulatory accountability of harvest, and other improvements to the current
system.
? Immediately establish the Gulf of Mexico Angling Reporting System (GOMARS) as an
endorsement to the Gulf of Mexico Federal Charter/Headboat Reef Fish Permit and
require every For-Hire vessel (FH) landing red snapper to have a GOMARS onboard.
? Immediately begin the regulatory process to require a GOMARS permit for private
recreational anglers or for each private recreational vessel (PR angler or PRV) who
wishes to catch a red snapper.
? Immediately create and implement an automatic telephone reporting system (similar to
the current HMS recreational billfish telephone reporting system) and a web based
reporting system (similar to the state of VA Recreational Assessment Program reporting
system)
? The GOMARS will have an identifying number linked to a vessel (For-Hire, PRV and/or
PR angler) and will require the vessel owner?s and/or angler?s name, address, phone
number (land and/or cell). Optional owner information will be an email address for
contact. The GOMARS will provide the web link and 800 phone number for reporting.
? A condition of the GOMARS will be to require the endorsement/permit to be onboard
any vessel with recreational red snapper on board. The reporting of the catching and
landing of red snapper will be required when returning to a shore side facility either by
telephone call in or web based. (The report will provide the GOMARS number, the
number of anglers fishing for red snapper and where that fishing occurred - state or
federal waters, how many hours ? to the nearest ? hour- fished for red snapper in ? state
or federal waters, how many red snapper were harvested for each angler and location -
state or federal waters, how many red snapper were discarded and location - state or
federal waters, type of gear used (rod and reel, spear, electric or manual reel, and a
confirmation number verifying the report will be provided to the person making the
report.)
? The fee for the GOMARS endorsement/permit will be the same as an additional permit
for the FH vessel owner and shall be consistent with the HMS permit fee ($16.00) for PR
anglers or PRVs.
? The For-Hire Survey and MRFSS will continue to collect data until they are no longer
necessary.
? The current dockside interview system should be enhanced and expanded to obtain
landings data such as size and composition of landings.
? Once the GOMARS endorsement/permit is implemented and required for vessels and
anglers recreational fishing in the EEZ, the NMFS should request all Gulf states to
implement the GOMARS (or compatible state system easily coordinated with the Fed
data collection system for total coverage of federally managed species) in state waters.
There should also be the ability for the GOMARS endorsement/permit to be purchased
when purchasing a state saltwater fishing license as well as the federal web based system.
? While the GOMARS and it?s requirements are being implemented, the council should
begin the process of requiring electronic logbooks for all FH vessels and a similar
reporting system for PR anglers or PRVs. (divers possess a dive log which is water proof,
paper log, web based accessed by laptop or mobile device)
<DIV align=right><DIV align=right>Page 3</DIV></DIV>
? As the logbook programs are being developed, the GOMARS should be expanded to
cover other reef fish species as the logbooks will provide the ability to collect critical data
for all species such as disposition of discards, total number of discards, time spent fishing
for each species, fishing in state or federal waters, depth of water fished, number of hooks
per line, and other data that becomes necessary for stock assessments.
? A pilot program should be immediately designed to study using aggregate bag limits that
will eliminate discards. The program should investigate the possibility of increasing
stock biomass by reducing discards and discard mortality. This type of management will
also help to reverse the current trained behavior of marine mammals which now target
anglers for food. The program should include information to study the current behavior
of marine mammals and the impact it has on the animals and humans.
? We see no need to require VMSs on FH vessels or for PR anglers or PRVs as a VMS will
not report when a vessel is fishing, how many anglers are fishing, how many fish are
caught. This proposal provides mechanisms that accomplish everything necessary to
determine the number of anglers wishing to fish, the date fished, the number actually
fishing and for how long, the species and numbers caught, the species and numbers
discarded and if fishing in state or federal waters, and more. Until a VMS is
demonstrated to provide scientifically sound information necessary for enhanced stock
assessments, it should not be required.
? The NMFS should coordinate with DHS and USCG regarding any electronic tracking
systems.
? Enforcement should be enhanced as vessels harvesting red snapper must have a
GOMARS endorsement/permit on board.
? Last, but most definitely not the least important is outreach and education to publicize the
need for all recreational anglers to participate in providing good fishing data.
CONCLUSION
While this proposal does not provide 100% of the recreational data needs, it is a very positive first
step that will provide much needed data from all recreational anglers. Implementing this plan as
proposed will provide the data necessary to identify the effort, the number of fish harvested, and
number of fish discarded almost immediately. It also provides for full accountability for all
recreational anglers. Technology advances almost daily and any program adopted must be able to
be flexible enough to adapt with ever increasing data needs and technology. With the current and
past requirements of fishery law, we are dependent on accurate and timely data. This proposal
begins that process and we suggest that if all components of this plan are adopted that the
information necessary to properly comply with the law will ensure that the anglers and
communities suffer less harm and confusion. We suggest that the simplest components of this
plan be adopted first while effort continues on the implementation of the more time consuming
proposals.
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