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Old 05-31-2010, 05:16 AM   #1
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Mingo
 
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Default Green Technology!

Have any of you put much thought into converting a boat from a gas powered machine to one that is powered by a large electric motor or even a hybrid? I am no engineer, but I have done some research and think this is possible. It is common for people to take a junk car and turn it into a pure electric for less than $5000. I think larger boats are out of the question. A lighter weight boat that is less than 20 feet might be possible. The range would be extremely limited with a pure electric, but a hybrid would be a cool project. If anyone would be interested in having a beer or soda and discuss collaborating on such a project, pm me.
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:04 AM   #2
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Default RE: Green Technology!

It is verifiable fact that it takes nearly, equal or more power resources dependent on fossil fuels to charge a battery bank than to just run a petro powered engine...

This "GREEN ENERGY" sham is nothing but a scam! Once folks buy into the "good" they are doing as individuals, they will be likely to support, endorse, or at least, not mind the "carbon footprint" taxation which will skyrocket all of our taxes and/or costs!

When you send voltage and amperage down a wire, those further downline will use more to make less than those right at the source... Ohms law and all the associated losses come into affect. Voltage drop and the like...

A battery charging system is a step down transformer (inherent losses) and every transistor and diode is additional loss...

The most energy efficient system is to take the refined fossil fuel and burn it at the source (reciprocating engine), not haul it by diesel powered barge, offload the fuel oil, run it thru electric pumps into the plant, make electricty, send it down the wire with accepted losses due to voltage drop with distance, power up a drop down transformer, supply power to the associated electronics (more power losses) and inefficiently run a battery charger to build less than stellar output parameters with each charge... Then you have the heat generated from all of these steps creating "GLOBAL WARMING"... DON'T DRINK THE AL GORE FLAVORED KOOL-AID UNTIL DEEPLY RESEARCHING POWER INPUT/OUTPUT RATIOS!!!!

Not a viable concept until our power plants are back to nuclear power which would greatly offset the info I base my knowledge on!
Brent
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:24 AM   #3
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Default RE: Green Technology!

Hybrid gas over electric technology is really not that good on a land based vehicle with no saltwater or "salty air" intrusion... These vehicles will not go very many years with out an R&R on the *storage units*. The cost to R&R the storage units (batteries) will be a very large out of pocket investment. This doesn't include any electronics upkeep or upgrade.

A man like me provides 10-15 year old vehicles for my family and I do my best to maintain and keep these up... A 200K mile vehicle with no negative current repair issues may get us by 7-10 more years... I would not be able to try this with a "hybrid". Many here have likely "repowered" electric golf carts and will tell you it is a large cash outlay. Most will agree that the next battery bank never lasts like the first due to growing weaknesses in the system, battery age/ condition not withstanding.

Nope, give me the chance to keep buying decent condition "old skool" rides and my wife/daughter/son will not be stranded...

Brent
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Old 05-31-2010, 06:54 AM   #4
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Default RE: Green Technology!

Hogdogs has a point but lets say I buy an electric car to drive back and forth from work. Its 18 miles one way, 36 round trip. So I spend about 5-6 bucks a day on gas each day with my current vehicle. If I had a electric vehicle I would spend about 70-80 cents a day to charge it up, and thats a high estimate.

Ok, so fossil fuels to make that electricity, I see your point but what if I convert to on grid solar and am actually making more electricity than I needeach month. Granted it would cost about 25-30 grand to do so prior to any rebates but still possible.

Now, about the electric boat, hmm, feasable, but I dont think you would get a lot of speed out of it. Would you sacrifice speed and possibly range? Depends on what the top speed would be, I would have to at least do 20kts in say a 23 foot'ish boat, thats a lot of weight to push with an electric motor.

How about an electric kicker motor for trolling only, same as on bass boats but bigger in theory. The batteries would add weight, well, heck, fuel is weight too, 7 pds a gallon? Is that right? I am up too late.....
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:23 AM   #5
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Default RE: Green Technology!

weatherman... First I respect your "weatherman" skills...
I will delete any power station stats as it is peein contest and I am too tired...

To install solar in the number that will out run a meter is GARGANTUAN, You will have mister sunbeam smiling a long time on your array before you ever offset the install costs. The price you mention is not close to that needed to run a small home, not even close to a materials cost only, you have to build a blueprint written by an electrical engineer and handed off to a blueprint firm... These will then have to be approved by the locale over seeing the project and they will consult the power company (you pay this too)...

My only experience in this field is No Name Key where NO POWER is supplied to the island... These folks use MASSIVE battery banks, Solar electric, Solar water heat, wind and they still MUST run GENERATORS to keep the battery banks charged. So what they do is run the laundry gear in the daytime. They fire up the genny then so as not to disturb their TV time or disturb the neighbors. The solar banks are expected to just "top off" not replace the juice.

If not for the massive storage cell banks, they couldn't live as they do. NO ONE Has a roof full of voltaic cells as it is cost prohibitive with outlay and upkeep...

Then you must consider how much UN-GREEN energy it took to melt the sand to make the solar panel... no one can ever over come this cost even if they spend the mint to buy it! MASSIVE AMOUNTS of petrol energy is spent to make a TINY solar panel... How many do you need...

I would love to see GREEN energy but GREEN energy is NUCLEAR POWER!

Brent
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Old 05-31-2010, 07:37 AM   #6
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Default RE: Green Technology!

Brent, thanks for the props, but after doing something for 19 years you tend to get better at getting lucky.

I am a big fan of nuclear power, heck any power other than oil power, I have spent too many days in some God forsakened places for what seems like well, you get the picture.

Dont get me wrong, I love my boat and truck, I just wish there were some other way, not just for me but for everyone. I know, I know, sounds somewhat hypocritical but I am going to put my money where my mouth is and buy a Volt when available, and when Chevy comes out with the same type of vehicle that has 4 wheel drive and can tow 7K pds, sold!

I wish I had the cash to convert to solar for the house, I ran the numbers and my dollar cost is pretty dang close.

The only thing I can do now is save like a madman to try to offset the cost of the last home I will buy to convert it or build it outright that will include solar power, wind power, rain water collection, and maybe some sort of hydro power if the land has a stream on it. Oh, and geo thermal heat pump too. All told, should add about 50-60k to the price of a home, dang.....
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Old 05-31-2010, 08:09 AM   #7
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Default RE: Green Technology!


There is a severe misconception fueled by the Al Gore type folks... Solar is HIGH DOLLAR!!!!
Here is a sample on quick search...
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/solar...50.info.1.html
This is "off grid" meaning max output stuff...
Here is a 1,750 watt "system for $12,300
The average little home under 15 years old has a 200 amp service. So base this number on the solar set up... you are looking at $100k for the setup not including engineering.

So one of these 1,750 setups produces 15.9 amps at 110 volts so you need 10 or so for the 110V 15 amp circuit needs of a home.

We will need 220v for the water heater, stove/oven and furnace minimum.
We need 110 for nearly all else...
This was a quickie search but as you see it is not as cheap as many lead us to believe...
Brent
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:22 PM   #8
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Default RE: Green Technology!

The electronic support gear is both high dollar and loaded with heavy metal as well as having required a lot of energy from petro to make.

The battery bank required is also substantial in both cost as well as space requirements not to mention the required periodic maint.

The batteries will not last more than a couple years before deterioration of performance is obvious.

The batteries are typical lead acid affairs of the golf cart variety.

Yes they can be recycled but this is not really a "green" operation either...

You may also want a few high grade wind generators as seen on sail boats.

You will not likely want to tax your system in hopes of sending juice "up the wire".
The folks I knew on No Name Key were very stingy and conservative with their juice and I remember routine maint. being a full day sort of affair as they have to test each cell of each battery in the bank...

Brent
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:42 PM   #9
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Default RE: Green Technology!

This site

<a href="http://www.psychosnail.com/BoatSpeedCalculator.aspx">http://www.psychosnail.com/BoatSpeedCalculator.aspx</a>

indicates that a pair of32 foot displacement (sailboat type) catamaran hulls, 1500# each, could be propelled 10 mph with 6.31horsepower/hull.

With liquid hydrocarbon fuel and an efficient engine, consumption should be on the order of1/2 gal per hour.

Whether you would be willing to settle for 10 mph probably depends on what gasoline costs, or who is paying.

Since 12.62 HP is 9.41 KW

<a href="http://www.wolframalpha.com/">http://www.wolframalpha.com/</a>

a 10 KW electric motor should provide about the same performance.

A 30 KW-Hr (usable) battery pack (about 4 Chevy Volt battery packs @ 8.8 KW-hr usable, each)

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt</a>

or a ton or so of Wal-Mart batteries should get you out and back.

Joraca
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Old 05-31-2010, 03:47 PM   #10
WW2
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Default RE: Green Technology!

Quote:
weatherman (31/05/2010)Brent, thanks for the props, but after doing something for 19 years you tend to get better at getting lucky.

I am a big fan of nuclear power, heck any power other than oil power, I have spent too many days in some God forsakened places for what seems like well, you get the picture.

Dont get me wrong, I love my boat and truck, I just wish there were some other way, not just for me but for everyone. I know, I know, sounds somewhat hypocritical but I am going to put my money where my mouth is and buy a Volt when available, and when Chevy comes out with the same type of vehicle that has 4 wheel drive and can tow 7K pds, sold!

I wish I had the cash to convert to solar for the house, I ran the numbers and my dollar cost is pretty dang close.

The only thing I can do now is save like a madman to try to offset the cost of the last home I will buy to convert it or build it outright that will include solar power, wind power, rain water collection, and maybe some sort of hydro power if the land has a stream on it. Oh, and geo thermal heat pump too. All told, should add about 50-60k to the price of a home, dang.....
Geo thermal is the very first thing you should do in the steps towards green. It is the system that will provide the most bang for the buck. It also severely lessens the amount of power you need from solar if you intend to go that route.
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