12' Scrambler vs T120

JD7.62 · 02-10-2012, 07:33 PM

A couple days ago I bought my dad a WS T120. It was a good deal and I heard they are good kayaks so I grabbed it for him.

My buddy has a 12' Perception Pescador which is the same hull Im pretty sure as this '09 T120 and when he and I went out a few days ago he BLEW me out of the water (my kayak was more loaded down then his though).

Well today I got to try out the T120 and I noticed it was much tippier then my scrambler. In the OK I have to grab the side handles and really rock to get it tipping but the T120 all I had to do was move my hips a little bit.

My question is, how is the secondary stability on the T120? Of course I didnt want to see exactly were the tipping point was this time of year but I am curious to know if the initial tippiness is due to the kayaks design to make it faster but it has a better secondary stability to it?

After an hour or so of paddling around I will admit that I quickly got use to it and hardly noticed it. I was very surprised at the difference in between the Scrambler and the T120 initially though.

Any input would be appreciated!!

oxbeast1210 · 02-10-2012, 07:57 PM

I think your on the right track JD, Usually the faster yaks wont be as stable.

skubacat · 02-10-2012, 07:57 PM

You are right about the Pescador being the "first generation" Tarpon 120. To answer your question about the secondary stability. Its great in the Tarpon you almost have to start to let water into the cockpit before it will flip. I have a Pescador and this is my third season with the boat. I regularly sit side saddle and the other day I was standing in it for the first time. It does seem to have a fast hull and is a little "tippy" at first but as you noticed that feeling disappears.
I know there are a lot of other kayaks out there but at that $500 price point a used Tarpon or a new Pescador is tough to beat.
I'm obviously biased.

Neo · 02-10-2012, 08:02 PM

That's my wife's user name I was using there....(Skubacat)

oxbeast1210 · 02-10-2012, 08:13 PM

I agree its a sweet boat especially for the price.

reboot_me · 02-10-2012, 10:06 PM

I really had to try to tip my WS T120 over, the secondary is stable. That first edge is very scary until you get use to it, but like previous post stated you get use to it fast. It is a fairly fast designed hull and it tracks well.

Seatmech86 · 02-10-2012, 11:38 PM

I have a PS P12 also. My next project is to put retractable outriggers on mine. My local Yak dealer said WS sold the old T120 mold to PS. If you ask me, the plastic grade is a lot lower quality. I have an old beater Castaway 116 that I constantly beat the snot out of, on top of buying it not so gently used, and my brand new pescador that I baby to death has already got plenty of wear on it. I've only had it since mid october. If you can live with that though, it is an awesome fishing machine for a paddle yak and the price.

JD7.62 · 02-11-2012, 02:43 PM

Thanks guys, that is what I figured. Im new to Kayaking and it just startled me at first. Actually I almost dumped it from the get go. While getting in, the kayak was half in and half out of the water resting on the waters edge on the flat part. I got in and started scooting into the water but once the skinny part in the back was all that was on the land the kayak flipped, luckily I was able to catch myself with the paddle before I fell in.

Oh yeah, I got attacked and bit by a goose while dragging it out of the back of my jeep. Scared the crap outa me as I had my back to the goose and didnt see it coming and I dropped the kayak. The goose paid for it with a couple solid kicks though lol.

oxbeast1210 · 02-11-2012, 04:15 PM

Lmao to bad you didn't have a go pro on while battling the goose!!

Yaksquatch · 02-12-2012, 08:43 PM

In reasonably calm bays and other sheltered areas you shouldn't need to worry about tipping over in a T120 or Pescador 12. It'll 'feel' tippier than your scrambler but that's because scramblers were designed to play in the surf. Even on decent days offshore, you're T120 or Pescador will be fine.

The tricky thing with the Tarpons is going in and out through surf. I used to have a T160 and believe me it was fast as greased lightning but DID NOT handle surf well at all. Your 12 footers will be better but still squirrely in rough surf. I was flipped 3 times over the 2 years I owned my T160.

Not to make you afraid, just be aware you WILL be flipped by surf at some point if you go playing in it. Just be prepared for it: tie down everything of value and WEAR YOUR PFD!!!

Good luck,
Alex

02-10-2012, 07:33 PM	#1
JD7.62 Senior Member Grouper Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,167	12' Scrambler vs T120 A couple days ago I bought my dad a WS T120. It was a good deal and I heard they are good kayaks so I grabbed it for him. My buddy has a 12' Perception Pescador which is the same hull Im pretty sure as this '09 T120 and when he and I went out a few days ago he BLEW me out of the water (my kayak was more loaded down then his though). Well today I got to try out the T120 and I noticed it was much tippier then my scrambler. In the OK I have to grab the side handles and really rock to get it tipping but the T120 all I had to do was move my hips a little bit. My question is, how is the secondary stability on the T120? Of course I didnt want to see exactly were the tipping point was this time of year but I am curious to know if the initial tippiness is due to the kayaks design to make it faster but it has a better secondary stability to it? After an hour or so of paddling around I will admit that I quickly got use to it and hardly noticed it. I was very surprised at the difference in between the Scrambler and the T120 initially though. Any input would be appreciated!! Last edited by JD7.62; 02-10-2012 at 09:57 PM.

02-10-2012, 10:06 PM	#6
reboot_me Member Ruby Red Lip Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Cabot, AR Posts: 98	I really had to try to tip my WS T120 over, the secondary is stable. That first edge is very scary until you get use to it, but like previous post stated you get use to it fast. It is a fairly fast designed hull and it tracks well. Last edited by reboot_me; 02-10-2012 at 10:11 PM.

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02-10-2012, 07:57 PM	#2
oxbeast1210 Senior Member White Marlin Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: milton Posts: 3,546	I think your on the right track JD, Usually the faster yaks wont be as stable.

02-10-2012, 07:57 PM	#3
skubacat Junior Member Cigar Minnow Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Daphne, AL Posts: 11	You are right about the Pescador being the "first generation" Tarpon 120. To answer your question about the secondary stability. Its great in the Tarpon you almost have to start to let water into the cockpit before it will flip. I have a Pescador and this is my third season with the boat. I regularly sit side saddle and the other day I was standing in it for the first time. It does seem to have a fast hull and is a little "tippy" at first but as you noticed that feeling disappears. I know there are a lot of other kayaks out there but at that $500 price point a used Tarpon or a new Pescador is tough to beat. I'm obviously biased.

02-10-2012, 08:02 PM	#4
Neo Member Ruby Red Lip Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 59	That's my wife's user name I was using there....(Skubacat)

02-10-2012, 08:13 PM	#5
oxbeast1210 Senior Member White Marlin Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: milton Posts: 3,546	I agree its a sweet boat especially for the price.

02-10-2012, 11:38 PM	#7
Seatmech86 Senior Member Trigger Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SW P'cola/Perdido Posts: 238	I have a PS P12 also. My next project is to put retractable outriggers on mine. My local Yak dealer said WS sold the old T120 mold to PS. If you ask me, the plastic grade is a lot lower quality. I have an old beater Castaway 116 that I constantly beat the snot out of, on top of buying it not so gently used, and my brand new pescador that I baby to death has already got plenty of wear on it. I've only had it since mid october. If you can live with that though, it is an awesome fishing machine for a paddle yak and the price.

02-11-2012, 02:43 PM	#8
JD7.62 Senior Member Grouper Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 1,167	Thanks guys, that is what I figured. Im new to Kayaking and it just startled me at first. Actually I almost dumped it from the get go. While getting in, the kayak was half in and half out of the water resting on the waters edge on the flat part. I got in and started scooting into the water but once the skinny part in the back was all that was on the land the kayak flipped, luckily I was able to catch myself with the paddle before I fell in. Oh yeah, I got attacked and bit by a goose while dragging it out of the back of my jeep. Scared the crap outa me as I had my back to the goose and didnt see it coming and I dropped the kayak. The goose paid for it with a couple solid kicks though lol.

02-11-2012, 04:15 PM	#9
oxbeast1210 Senior Member White Marlin Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: milton Posts: 3,546	Lmao to bad you didn't have a go pro on while battling the goose!!

02-12-2012, 08:43 PM	#10
Yaksquatch Senior Member Sailfish Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Milton, FL Posts: 1,459	In reasonably calm bays and other sheltered areas you shouldn't need to worry about tipping over in a T120 or Pescador 12. It'll 'feel' tippier than your scrambler but that's because scramblers were designed to play in the surf. Even on decent days offshore, you're T120 or Pescador will be fine. The tricky thing with the Tarpons is going in and out through surf. I used to have a T160 and believe me it was fast as greased lightning but DID NOT handle surf well at all. Your 12 footers will be better but still squirrely in rough surf. I was flipped 3 times over the 2 years I owned my T160. Not to make you afraid, just be aware you WILL be flipped by surf at some point if you go playing in it. Just be prepared for it: tie down everything of value and WEAR YOUR PFD!!! Good luck, Alex

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