Not 1 in 100 will use this tip but everybody ought to. # 12

captken · 05-21-2008, 07:49 AM

FISHING TIP# 12<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

ffice

ffice" /><o

></o

>[/B]KNOT TESTING<o

></o

>[/B]Here is the quick and easy way I test a new knot to see if it is better than the knot I usually use. This should work for everybody. [/B]<o

></o

>[/B]You will need clippers, line, 2 identical screw eyes and (2) 6? lengths of 5/8? wooden dowel. <o

></o

>[/B]Make your pull tester by screwing one of the eyes into each of the wooden dowels as shown.[/B]<o

></o

>[/B]First: Cut a piece of line ~2' long.
Second: Tie line to one of the screw eyes using your favorite knot.
Third: Tie the opposite end of the line to the other screw eye using the new knot.
[/B]<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

ffice:smarttags" /><st1

lace>Forth[/B]</st1

lace>: Holding a dowel in each hand, pull apart until one of the knots gives. Obviously, you will need to hold one end in a vise if you are testing heavy line. (I use my feet to hold one dowel.)<o

></o

>[/B]For quality control purposes:
1. Make sure both knots are equally lubricated and carefully tied.
2. Carefully inspect the knots before pulling to assure that they are perfectly tied. A small magnifying glass and a light will make this task easier and more accurate.
3. Repeat the testing process at least 5 times. The same knot should break 100% of the time unless there was a glitch in the tying procedure.
4. Record your results and note anything you may have observed that seems pertinent. Consider re-tying each knot in a length of mono and storing it and the results sheet in a plastic bag. Line brand, product designation, #test and diameter are pertinent data. [/B]<o

></o

>[/B]The knot that shows the highest knot strength in your test is not necessarily the knot you should use. Ease and speed of tying is a great concern as is a knot that is streamlined and has no tag end to catch grass or affect casting performance. <o

></o

>[/B]Try the test when you change line types/brands. Compare results to your previous line. Some knots work better with soft lines than they do with stiffer lines. <o

></o

>[/B]You can take this testing further by using a slow pull or a sharp yank. Some knots do not handle sudden shock well. Perform these tests separately and record results separately. <o

></o

>[/B]These tests are no better than your quality control. Test uniformity is the key in qualitative tests. <o

></o

>[/B]Gloves and eye protection are strongly suggested.<o

></o

>[/I][/B]I prefer to perform these tests myself rather than rely on information provided by line manufacturers or outdoor writers. When I do it myself, I know what works for me. <o

></o

>[/B]A few little hints on tying better knots:<o

></o

>[/B]1. Lubricate all knots in all materials.<o

></o

>[/B]2. Clinch the knot down slowly and completely.<o

></o

>[/B]3. If a knot ?Squeaks? when you tie it, start over because you have damaged the line.<o

></o

>[/B]4. If a knot does not look right, it is not right.<o

></o

>[/B]5. If a knot does not ?Feel? right when you clinch it down, it is suspect. Re-tie or be prepared to accept the consequences.<o

></o

>[/B]6. Tie simpler knots in heavier or stiff lines. Reduce the number of turns in a knot used in heavy line until you can clinch the knot properly. <o

></o

>[/B]7. [/B]Practice makes perfect and instills confidence.[/B] <o

></o

>[/B]Adding a little "Scientific Method" to your fishing will make you a better fisherman, I'll gar-on-tee. <o

></o

>[/B]<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Inever hold my breath when I have a splice several hundred feet from my rod tip with a strong fish on. I know my knots will hold because I have tested them.[/B]

John B. · 05-22-2008, 08:04 PM

in your expierience, what are the knots you use most for the following:

line to line (same, or close to the same diameter),

line to teminal tackle,

line to leader (of larger diameter)

mine are:

line to line (same, or close to the same diameter), uni to uni (or if far under the spool, bimini to bimini)

line to teminal tackle, uni knot

line to leader (of larger diameter) albright knot.

captken · 05-23-2008, 08:10 AM

I don't use the Uni in mono at any time. The tag end catches grass, catches in guides and levelwinds. The uni is just fine in superbraids because any tag end is soft.

I used the Albright for lots of years but find the Bristol is at least as good andless operator error prone and a lot better for line to wire. (Notice the tag end).

Line to line, I use a modification of the Blood Dropper Loop Knot. Tie the two lines together with an Overhand Knot then tie the Blood Dropper Loop Knot. Next, trim the tag ends and discard the Overhand Knot. This is faster than tying the regular Blood Knot and just as strong. I always double Super Braids before knotting.

I seldom tie a Bimini anymore. The Spider Hitch works fine, especially if you back it up with a3 pass Clinch Knot to turn the tag end to the side. I tested both knots on Berkley's line testing machine many times and got similar results. (Note: The Spider Hitch is exactly the same knot as theSurgeon's End Knot, differing only in the way it is tied.

Mono/Fluoro, line to swivel: Palomar in tests up to 30# or sometimes even 50. Doubled line Clinch Knot (Not improved) in 12-50 sometimes. Trilene Knot with fewer final turns as line diameter (stiffness) increases in 50-130.

Leader to hook: Snell Knot (TIP #2) anytime I don't need a loop knot.My own Loop Knot that tests far higher than most other loop knots. If anybody is interested, I'll post the tip I show it in here. (This is kinda like giving away the farm) If I remember correctly, this tip is in E-Book #3 or 4.

Line to wire. Bristol---every time.

Cable to swivel or hook. I try very hard not to use sleeves. With tiny cable, I use the Figure 8 Knot to the hook or Homer Rhodes Loop Knot with an extra turn and a tuck or a Snell Knot. With heavy cable, I always splice a loop rather than crimping it. (TIP# 410) The Cable Splice is 100% and pretty fast to rig.

A good "Rule of Thumb" is, the heavier (stiffer) the line, the less complex the knot should be. If you can't cinch a knot down properly, reduce the # of turns or change knots. In this respect, the Snell Knot rules. I can snell with 2# test or with 400# test. (TIP #2)

If you have an inquiring mind, testing your knots using the procedure I outlined in this tip (TIP # 12) will answer your questions. I wish I still had access to the line testing machine I used when working for Berkley. Quantitative tests are great when folks must have numbers.

05-21-2008, 07:49 AM	#1
captken Senior Member Sailfish Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Crystal River, FL Posts: 1,927	Not 1 in 100 will use this tip but everybody ought to. # 12 <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 20pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">FISHING TIP# 12<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 20pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">KNOT TESTING<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Here is the quick and easy way I test a new knot to see if it is better than the knot I usually use. This should work for everybody. [/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">You will need clippers, line, 2 identical screw eyes and (2) 6? lengths of 5/8? wooden dowel. <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Make your pull tester by screwing one of the eyes into each of the wooden dowels as shown.[/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">First: Cut a piece of line ~2' long. Second: Tie line to one of the screw eyes using your favorite knot. Third: Tie the opposite end of the line to the other screw eye using the new knot. [/B]<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Forth[/B]</st1lace><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">: Holding a dowel in each hand, pull apart until one of the knots gives. Obviously, you will need to hold one end in a vise if you are testing heavy line. (I use my feet to hold one dowel.)<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">For quality control purposes: 1. Make sure both knots are equally lubricated and carefully tied. 2. Carefully inspect the knots before pulling to assure that they are perfectly tied. A small magnifying glass and a light will make this task easier and more accurate. 3. Repeat the testing process at least 5 times. The same knot should break 100% of the time unless there was a glitch in the tying procedure. 4. Record your results and note anything you may have observed that seems pertinent. Consider re-tying each knot in a length of mono and storing it and the results sheet in a plastic bag. Line brand, product designation, #test and diameter are pertinent data. [/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The knot that shows the highest knot strength in your test is not necessarily the knot you should use. Ease and speed of tying is a great concern as is a knot that is streamlined and has no tag end to catch grass or affect casting performance. <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Try the test when you change line types/brands. Compare results to your previous line. Some knots work better with soft lines than they do with stiffer lines. <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">You can take this testing further by using a slow pull or a sharp yank. Some knots do not handle sudden shock well. Perform these tests separately and record results separately. <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">These tests are no better than your quality control. Test uniformity is the key in qualitative tests. <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto" align=center><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><U><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: red; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Gloves and eye protection are strongly suggested.<o></o></U>[/I][/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I prefer to perform these tests myself rather than rely on information provided by line manufacturers or outdoor writers. <SPAN style="mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">When I do it myself, I know what works for me. <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">A few little hints on tying better knots:<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">1. Lubricate all knots in all materials.<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">2. Clinch the knot down slowly and completely.<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">3. If a knot ?Squeaks? when you tie it, start over because you have damaged the line.<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">4. If a knot does not look right, it is not right.<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">5. If a knot does not ?Feel? right when you clinch it down, it is suspect. Re-tie or be prepared to accept the consequences.<o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">6. Tie simpler knots in heavier or stiff lines. Reduce the number of turns in a knot used in heavy line until you can clinch the knot properly. <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">7. [/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Practice makes perfect and instills confidence.[/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"> <o></o>[/B]<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Adding a little "Scientific Method" to your fishing will make you a better fisherman, I'll gar-on-tee. <o></o>[/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Inever hold my breath when I have a splice several hundred feet from my rod tip with a strong fish on. I know my knots will hold because I have tested them.[/B] __________________ Captken http://www.panhandlefishingbooks.com/

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05-22-2008, 08:04 PM	#2
John B. bluefish killer Blue Marlin Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Pensacola Beach Posts: 4,155	RE: Not 1 in 100 will use this tip but everybody ought to. # 12 in your expierience, what are the knots you use most for the following: line to line (same, or close to the same diameter), line to teminal tackle, line to leader (of larger diameter) mine are: line to line (same, or close to the same diameter), uni to uni (or if far under the spool, bimini to bimini) line to teminal tackle, uni knot line to leader (of larger diameter) albright knot. __________________

05-23-2008, 08:10 AM	#3
captken Senior Member Sailfish Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Crystal River, FL Posts: 1,927	RE: Not 1 in 100 will use this tip but everybody ought to. # 12 I don't use the Uni in mono at any time. The tag end catches grass, catches in guides and levelwinds. The uni is just fine in superbraids because any tag end is soft. I used the Albright for lots of years but find the Bristol is at least as good andless operator error prone and a lot better for line to wire. (Notice the tag end). Line to line, I use a modification of the Blood Dropper Loop Knot. Tie the two lines together with an Overhand Knot then tie the Blood Dropper Loop Knot. Next, trim the tag ends and discard the Overhand Knot. This is faster than tying the regular Blood Knot and just as strong. I always double Super Braids before knotting. I seldom tie a Bimini anymore. The Spider Hitch works fine, especially if you back it up with a3 pass Clinch Knot to turn the tag end to the side. I tested both knots on Berkley's line testing machine many times and got similar results. (Note: The Spider Hitch is exactly the same knot as theSurgeon's End Knot, differing only in the way it is tied. Mono/Fluoro, line to swivel: Palomar in tests up to 30# or sometimes even 50. Doubled line Clinch Knot (Not improved) in 12-50 sometimes. Trilene Knot with fewer final turns as line diameter (stiffness) increases in 50-130. Leader to hook: Snell Knot (TIP #2) anytime I don't need a loop knot.My own Loop Knot that tests far higher than most other loop knots. If anybody is interested, I'll post the tip I show it in here. (This is kinda like giving away the farm) If I remember correctly, this tip is in E-Book #3 or 4. Line to wire. Bristol---every time. Cable to swivel or hook. I try very hard not to use sleeves. With tiny cable, I use the Figure 8 Knot to the hook or Homer Rhodes Loop Knot with an extra turn and a tuck or a Snell Knot. With heavy cable, I always splice a loop rather than crimping it. (TIP# 410) The Cable Splice is 100% and pretty fast to rig. A good "Rule of Thumb" is, the heavier (stiffer) the line, the less complex the knot should be. If you can't cinch a knot down properly, reduce the # of turns or change knots. In this respect, the Snell Knot rules. I can snell with 2# test or with 400# test. (TIP #2) If you have an inquiring mind, testing your knots using the procedure I outlined in this tip (TIP # 12) will answer your questions. I wish I still had access to the line testing machine I used when working for Berkley. Quantitative tests are great when folks must have numbers. __________________ Captken http://www.panhandlefishingbooks.com/

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