Pass Time

To make a real long story short...I have a 2005 F225 that just up and stopped running one day. Cleaned out the fuel/water separator(very full of water and crap) and engine ran great for four more days and very long fishing trips. Coming back to dock on the last trip, motor stalled at low speed after slowing for traffic and then trying to throttle up. Had to get towed in. Got motor to run by squeezing primer bulb. Heres is what we were thinking...and did. Cleaned up fuel and tank, not bad,,,replaced entire fuel line including barbed fittings, hoses, new fuel water separator and Racor filter with water drain bowl, new primer bulb and clamps, new primary filter. Checked for good flow all the way to low pressure pump and have great flow. Engine starts and runs great until VST fuel supply is used up. Thinking low pressure pump is not working and also looks really rusty I replaced it. Suspected filter cartridge may have bypassed also and let trash through the line so I also remove VST and clean tank and parts and replace high speed pump filter...it was at least 60% clogged. Everything goes back together great. After priming empty system with bulb I turn on the ignition and hear the pumps charge the system. Could actually hear the low pressure pump run for about 10 seconds. Motor cranks and runs like a top for about 15 minutes then starts to slow and stutter then tried to stop. Sqeezed primer bulb and kept motor running. Motor runs now until VST empties. Low pressure pump does not seem to be coming on any more so Iremove lines and again chase a good fuel flow all the way to the intake of the new LP pump. Nothing comes out of the output side of the new pump at all unless I squeeze the bulb. Its seems like whatever tells theVST is drained while running is not telling it to come on. I look at my manual and see that there is a low pressure pump driver in the wiring harness that seems to power th LP pump. Any of you techs out there have any good advice for someone who just spent damn near $1000on cleaning up his fuel system and still having the same problem?

PS Motor runs damn fine for the few minutes that it does run.

wld1985

Kenny at ECM is the Yammy man...

DOUBLE "D" & LV

Both fuel pump are controlled by the computer. Check for power to the pump. It should be constant when the key is on. The ground for the pump is controlled by the computer. Check the connections for the pump. I have seen the prongs not make good contact and cause things similar. You could hook up a ground wire to the connection by back probing the black wire from the connection and see if it will run. If it does, you have a connection, wire, or computer problem. I am saying this based on the information given. Note: did you double check the fuses on the engine on the upper port side top?

Pass Time

thanks double D for the input. I figured the ECM controlled both pumps but just found out today that after a yamaha 225 four stroke actually dies from water "inhalation" that the ecm has to be reset on a computer. drug the boat to the shop this morning...we'll see what happens next week. meanwhile ,,no fishing for me.

Sequoiha

Hey David,, never heard of that one,,, but the 225s are known for the electric lift pump to fail,, i have replaced lots of them,,,,

__________________
Kenny Mann

Ms Penny Fishing Team

Member NRA 172499461

Minn Kota ASC

Dealer for The Super Stick
www.thesuperstick.com


Emerald Coast Marine LLC

Allmost Anything Computers

4610 Saufley Field Rd

Pensacola Fl, 32526

1-850-456-8196

1-850-455-8318

Sequoiha@cox.net

Kenny_Mann-ECM@cox.net

Pass Time

Ihave heard the same thing Sequoiha about the lift pumps failing. Some techs say that you need to use primer bulb "every" time you start your motor and to have your fuel lines as short and as flat (little lift)as possible. With what I just paid for a new pump and the time I had installing it I may be doing just that. Thanks for your input!

DOUBLE "D" & LV

I was going wait for the rest of the story on that one and see if something else came up as the problem. Can't reset a Yamaha computer, unless Yamaha has a new program, but we'll see.

outbrdwrench

Because of the fact that the Lp pump is not submersed in fuel (unlike the Hp pump), it is a damn good idea to prime it everytime you cold start the motor. The fuel is what lubricates these pumps,they hate to be run dry. There is no way or need to"reset" the pump driver inside theECM using YDIS. outbrdwrench.

Pass Time

<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Here?s the facts<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">July 2005 Yamaha F225TXR<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Motor runs like a top since purchase in January this year.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">One day out of the blue motor stops running while underway at idle speed. Will crank over but not start. We eventually remove fuel/water filter and clean. Reinstall, pump bulb and motor fires up and runs again for three more days including 2 long days 35 miles out in the gulf?no problems?runs like a top. After getting inshore on the last trip we slowed to idle and then neutral to speak to some friends and when we tried to throttle up get back underway she hesitated then died. Once again we emptied the f/w separator but no trash or water. Pumped primer and she started but didn?t run for just a minute.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Back at the dock we suspected fuel supply problems so we removed and replaced the anti-siphon valve at the pickup, the fuel line from there to the fuel separator, removed and installed new Racor bracket and filter with sight bowl just to make sure we weren?t pumping water, and new line from bracket to new primer bulb. Hose from bulb to motor already new. Checked connection inside conduit from the 3/8 A-1 fuel line to the smaller 3/8 line and from that line to the primary filter on motor. Changed out that filter as well even though it was clean and in good shape. At this point we pumped the primer bulb to make sure we had good fuel flow from tank and we did. We even changed the o-ring on the fuel filler cap. With everything hooked back up we try cranking her again and she starts and runs about 2 minutes at idle and starts stumbling again. Before it stops we prime the bulb again and she keeps running it seems, as long as we keep squeezing. OK now we suspect that the electric low pressure pump is not working so I purchase and install a new one and also purchase and install a high pressure pump filter just to make sure. Removed VST assembly and cleaned it good. Changed out filter and checked float and needle valve operation and it looked ok. Re-installed everything making sure all hose connections and wiring connections were good. Squeezed up primer bulb until hard and then fired her right up. She runs great for about 2 minutes and dies again. Primed her again and fired her up thinking we still may have had some air in the line we continued to squeeze the bulb. After a few minutes of this we stopped and the motor ran for maybe 20 minutes at idle and then stopped. Thinking we may have a fuel pickup problem we bypass everything and run the motor off of a remote tank. It doesn?t change a thing as it will still only run a few minutes. We primed her again and she ran maybe another 5 minutes at idle and then stopped. It seems that as long as we keep squeezing she will keep running, but sometimes the bulb will get firm and sometimes it is empty. We think this is the low pressure pump intermittently coming on and filling the VST.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I speak to a mechanic at a local shop here in Navarre and he tells me that we have to clear any trouble codes before it will run right again as it is still sensing trouble so I take it to him. He discovers that this motor has only flash codes and that it shows no trouble. He claims that after ?extensive time spent testing? that my problem is with fuel delivery (knew that already). He suspects the tank pickups are bad because he ran it all day on a remote tank. I go straight to the store and buy a new remote tank thinking ok, something may be wrong with my other remote tank. Nothing changes. Motor runs a few minutes and then quits. Only this time I couldn?t keep it running most of the time by squeezing the primer bulb. The bulb was still hard when the motor quit most of the time so and no fuel would go into the VST. I am wondering now if there is a float and needle valve problem. I will tear that back down again tomorrow and make sure its working ok. I do have another new o-ring!<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I am by no stretch a marine tech but something is telling me that the new low pressure pump is intermittently working. It seems that whatever tells the ECM to tell pump to come on and go off is maybe getting a bad signal. I know that there is a low pressure fuel pump driver but do not know exactly what its function is. I suspect it senses rpm to kick the pump on and off at low speed and keeps it on at higher speeds. <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Maybe I?m thinking in the wrong direction and something is wrong with the high pressure side too but right now I am only running it on the hose fitting so I am keeping the rpm?s at 6 to 7 hundred. I did put it in the water a few days ago and ran it at about 1200 to 1500 and it just would quit running sooner unless I squeezed the bulb.<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Does anyone on this forum have any advice other than taking it to a master tech, which by the way is what I will probably have to do?<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o></o><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">

NATEC

As the service manager at a boat shop I can only give youa few ideas to consider. First, think of your motor as your teeth, and a master mechanic as your dentist. How much money have you spent trying to avoid a master machanic and still problem not resolved? At our dealership, we pay Yamaha and Mercury about $18,000 pre year for software, training and manuals. This is why you may find labor rates higher at dealerships. There is for sure a place in the world for non-dealership type shops, but in the long run a master mechanic is a master machanic.

P.S. Try a product called 4-power in your fuel. Not HEET or something else. This is a very strong fuel system cleaner we use to clean clogged vst pumps, etc.