WW2

Ok, I have gotten a lot of tickets over the years and all for speeding and I always just paid them.

This time, however, I decided to fight it in court.....WOW, what a mistake that was.

I live behind the schools in Navarre, there are 3 of them all jumbled together. If you leave my house and drive to HWY98 there is not one sign that tells you what time the school zones are. Now, I went out there and got on 98 and accelerated to a whopping 31mph by the end of the school zone. Keep in mind the speed limit when no zone is in effect is 45 and 20 when it is. I got pulled over and given a ticket. Now I'm not so stupid as to not realize there is a school zone there. I have lived in the same house for 14 years, but there are 3 schools all with different start times. To this dayI don't really know when the school zone times are because after Igot the ticket I called the school and no one could tell me,one lady told me to look at the flashing sign.....There isn't one when leaving the school.Now, I went to court armed with pictures of the route showing no signs and nothing at all indicating when the school zone time starts. The officer tells the "judge" (I use thatterm very loosly now)what happened and it was factual. I then proceed to tell my side of the story. I have pictures of my view for the entire drive to 98. The "judge" didn't look at any of them. I told him that there are no signs indicating the time for the school zone on the route that I take to 98, which, is clearly indicated in the pictures. He insists I should "know" because of the flashin lights. Now, this is where I read to him the statute on school zones. It clearly stated that the school zones must be clearly marked with the TIMES the zone is in effect or have a flashing light. Well, I couldn't very well call him an idiot in court...the signs can only be seen as flashing from one side, if you are in the middle you can't see that. So, I stated all of this and when he started coming at me with all of this "I should just know because I have lived there all this time." I was still trying to make him understand that I couldn't see the signs and didn't know, he got pissed, doubled my fine and called me guilty. All but threw me out of the court. I am now debating on whether or not to get a lawyer and try to fight this thing further.

The one thing I do know is that Judge Hilliard now has ZERO of my respect as a public official and that I am here to tell you that facts mean nothing in court in Santa Rosa. And if anyone here knows this "judge" feel free to let him know I'd be happy to discuss my dissatisfaction any time. If I'm in the wrong I'll be the first to admit it, but, this time, I honestly drove to and pulled out as I would any time. It seems to me that these indicators are there to REMIND you that the zone is in effect. I am just astounded at this point.

hebegb

sounds like quite the pompous ass....fight it

SCUBA Junkie

My first question would be; why was Judge Hilliard presiding over traffic court ? In Santa Rosa County, traffic hearing officers handle infraction hearings. It only goes to a Judge when the hearing officer's ruling is appealed. I don't think paying an attorney would be necessary, but you should appeal the ruling on the grounds of your research. I have no tolerance of school or work zone speeders, and will stroke out a citation for either, but if the area was not property marked, you should have grounds for a defense. Unfortunatly, you found out the hard way that the court can impose a much higher fine than what is posted on the citation.

WW2

What has me so fired up is I get the impression that I was guilty the instant I started talking. It just makes no sense at all. If I should just know because I have lived by schools for 15 years then why have signs at all? Everyone should just know. But, we don't do it that way...why?...because like any other traffic hazard you put up a sign to REMIND people of the danger/hazard. If they had a sign going towards that intersection from the school that said the times for the school zone then I would know.

Here is another little twist, there is a sign at that intersection that says no right on red from 7am to 8am...the officer told the judge that he has seen me a ton of times at that intersection and never made a right on red during that time( I honestly think the officer was trying to help me out at this point). Ok, so right there it is...WHEN THE SIGN IS THERE WITH THE TIMES I FOLLOW IT....Judge....ignores the whole thing....WOW. Now better yet..this next year the times for the schools are changing....I'm screwed.

It's not about the money, if it were I would have paid the fine and moved on. This is about getting busted for doing something I couldn't have known was wrong and then about the fact that this "judge" can't even see the simplest logic that dictates that I should not have gotten the ticket. This is the first time I have ever stood before a judge for anything and the outcome was absolute nonsense. I have never been so disenchanted with a system in my life. You have an "ideal" about how our court system works, when you see it in action you will really be disappointed. It is truly a sad day for this american having seen how his judicial system works.

hebegb

you're wrong....governments view traffic enforcement as easy revenue:banghead

TWINKIE6816

Hell yes fight it! I understand what you are going through. A friend of mine got pulled over in the city of milton about 1 and 1/2 years ago, when they were doing construction. They had taken down the speed limit signs. I know if you are heading east on 90 the speed drops from 45 to 35 at the autozone. However, when he got pulled over for speeding he was past the old sign(which wasn't there because of construction) he got a ticket. The next day he took a few pics and fought it in court and won. Later another deputy and I were talking about the incident and he was pissed that he got off! I understand that the speed limit is there for a reason(now what the reason is I often wonder) but, come on use a little logic! I say fight it. You do NOT have to have a lawyer just do some research. MSN had an article on fighting tickets a few months back! just my .02!

AUradar

well, i get the impression that traffic court judges have heard it all before and are probably tired of hearing it again. The cop got you, you don't deny it, class closed. Right or wrong, thats probably the judge's mentality. This is JMHO. In fact, on another forum I heard this guy talking about how he went to fight a ticket he got while speeding. He got caught on radar and took his electronic tech degree diploma to the traffic court to establish himself as a radar expert so he couldtestify how speed radars can't work. Crap like that is what kills legimate complaints.

not taking the judge'sside here, thats just the impression I've gotten. I know what you mean by signs not being posted. I've been on side streets before and they aren't always marked very well. Kind of over looked.

But, isn't school out?

SCUBA Junkie

I find it poor form if an officer gets upset over the ruling of a court. I've been doing this too long to take anything done in the line of dutypersonal. Someone mentioned the MSN piece on beating tickets. Be careful following the advise of national columns on this subject. In Florida, traffic infractions are handled as a civil violation, not criminal. This takes away the requirement of "beyond reasonable doubt" and makes it an issue of "preponderance of the evidence". Is is a subtle point, but makes a world of difference when presenting or defending a traffic infraction.

Also; someone made a reference to tickets generating revenue. While this is correct, you may be surprised to find how little of a traffic fine goes to local government or law enforcement. I don't have actual number at hand, but the vast majority goes to the state level, so there is really no incentive for us to issue tickets, other than it's part of the job. And please, nobody even mention quotas, they do not exist, at least with my agency.

Tuna Man

Here is one for you. A few years ago I was given a ticket for running a stop sign. I, in fact did stop. The officer was sitting in a private driveway, watching this particular stop sign. No one could see him as they came up to it. Well the officer was sitting in his car, looking over a hill and could see the sign itself and maybe a foot below it. As I came up to the sign a SUV was stopped beyond the sign but not in the intersection. I stopped behind the SUV with my car bumper even with the sign, and after the SUV moved I proceeded to go. As I was turning I took another quick look to the West (4:30 PM) and the sun blinded me so I hit my brakes and was about a foot into the intersection. Nothing coming and I proceeded. Out comes the officer. I explain that I did in fact stop but he wouldn't hear a word and wrote me up. The very next day and at the exact same time, I had my wife in her Yukon stop where the other SUV was, and I stopped behind her. I got out and positioned myself where the officer was and at the level he would of been sitting in the car, and took pictures. There was NO way he saw me...The hill blocked his view of my car.....I was in my Miata. But that is not what concerned me. So I show up for my date and want a judicial audience as I was going to plead NOT GUILTY. Court date on a Monday..the something. Well on the Friday before my court datewe got a call about 8PM that Susan's Mother died and we were on our way to McComb, MS in a matter of a hour or so. Early Monday morning BEFORE the court date time I called (on my Brother in Law's phone...proof of call) and explained the situation and was given another date. All is well....I thought:banghead. A week later (before my second date)I get a letter from the state that my drivers licensehas beensuspended/revoked (not sure which one) anyways I drive to Alabaster, AL 7 miles up the road to get this straightened out. The city had made a mistake on who called in. Now to get this straightened out it was ALL up to me and the cityhas NOTHING to do with it at this point. I had 2 choices 1) Write the State, explain what transpired, and submit a letter from the city....now this will take up toward 6 weeks:banghead:banghead:doh....or 2) Go to Montgomery and personally submit the paperwork...Now my wife has to take me (she was working at that time and I have no valid DL), its 60 miles one way and the expense of the trip is on me. Well as it turned out I raised enough hell at city hall that the city contacted the State, threw out the ticket and I drove around with the letter from the city for about the next 4 weeks, hoping that the letter would suffice should I be stopped for ANYTHING......What happened to you doesn't surprise me in the least...however unjust it seems.

I have a ICON for that situation.......I'll PM it to you.

Splittine

Its kinda damn if you do and damn if you dont, ingnorance is no execption to the law but I agree there should be signs on both sides of the road. I dont know the school hours of the schools around my house, its pretty crappy that the judge wouldnt even give you a fair chance and look at you pics. But like said in post above its all a revenue issue to the county. I would make a phone call or send emails to the county and inform them of your problem they might be able to install a sign in the opposite direction. Good luck and let us know what happens if you pursue the matter.