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State Fishing License Barcode Reporting System

5K views 55 replies 26 participants last post by  Candy 
#1 · (Edited)
We need to move quick on agreeing on something as they are moving forward with recreational IFQs as quick as they can.

I would like to be able to provide a viable alternative plan to the regulators and something for the Gulf recreational anglers to get behind.

With today's technology, anyone can purchase and download a concert ticket then print the ticket on their own computer. Then to gain access to the concert, the person at the gate scans the barcode on your ticket, validating it and giving you admittance. The information goes into the system that that particular seat has been granted admission, and will prohibit anyone else from gaining admittance (say if you printed 2 copies at home and gave one to a friend). And, at the end of the day, the manager know EXACTLY how many people came the concert, which seats they sat in, how many came through which gate, etc. etc. etc.

The same thing could happen here; when the fishermen get on the boat (private rec, charter, or headboat), the captain asks for everyone's fishing license (which he should do anyways). He then uses his smart phone to scan the barcode on each license, which "validates" that license to go catch red snapper. Then, when they come back into cell range, the captain transmits up to the server and reports the catch relative to each license; 0, 1, or 2 (or 4 for Texas waters). If the catches aren't reported that day, then that fisherman's license goes into suspension and can't be activated to go fishing again until the catch is reported or the issue is resolved. Once the catch is reported, the license is deactivated and eligible for reactivation starting at 12:01 AM the next day (to prevent multiple daily bag limits for each license).

In states such as Florida where the customer on a charter is not required to have a fishing license, have the captain scan his license for however many fishermen are going fishing that day. The fish are not tied to individual licenses, just the captain's but the end result is the same, and the captain is building a catch history for his boat.

I think that peer pressure would be huge to comply with the reporting requirement since; 1) they are participating in the process that will actually provide viable, groundtruthable data, and 2) if you don't report, your license is suspended for snapper fishing, so you might as well go ahead and report! 3) It builds a database that shows how many fishermen went fishing out of what ports on what days and how many fish they caught. How can you get any more accountable than that? 4) It doesn't discriminate between fishermen based on what boat they fish on.

The information derived could be invaluable to fisheries managers to make informed decisions.

This will provide an accurate accounting for state water catches outside of federal season as well, so would be a year-round project here in Texas (and now Louisiana apparently). Crabtree stated that even if we go to a "0" day season, we could still potentially exceed our allocation due to state water catches. (Yes, he REALLY said that). I believe that the numbers for Texas charter and private recs are artificially low - this could be a mechanism to provide more accurate information that ACTUALLY reflects reality. With the other Gulf states going non-compliant, this type of system, if coordinated between the states could provide invaluable ammunition (data) to fight the good fight here.

I am working on getting an EFP approved, if nothing else, for reporting state water red snapper catches since it looks as though we may have a "0" day season. It's worth a try, is it not? I think so.

If they go to IFQs or fish tags FIRST, then the fish apportioned to those programs will be based on the egregiously flawed data and will result in a predetermined amount of fish landed that has absolutely NOTHING to do with historical landings or reality. A Texas Charterboat Cooperative IFQ Program based on the existing numbers would be an unmitigated disaster for Texas CFH captains and their customers for example.

Ready! Shoot! Aim! THAT is an "accountable and sustainable" way to go?

I think not.
 
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#8 ·
Tom as much as I applaud you on coming up with a plan this is fishing! I think we have missed the reason why we fish. We fish to get away from the cell phones, computers, the number crunching and the office.

If i went snapper fishing and never caught one I would be happy!!!!!!!!!!!!! The measurement of your fishing should not be how many red snapper are in your cooler but the experience of being on the water.

Not everybody has your technology or can afford your technology. A lot of us just want to go fishing and not be worried about "scanning" what we caught.

I would not support this program due to we do not live in a perfect world.
 
#9 ·
Yep, AL had to do away with their "mandatory" cell phone reporting of deer because guess what, not everyone has fancy phones or even a cell phone at all for that matter. I know it's hard to believe, but people out there don't have the latest and greatest gadgets. And you cannot discriminate against them.
 
#10 ·
What's the alternative? Oh yeah, recreational IFQs and Fish Tags, in which both systems would be relying on the egregiously flawed data to apportion the fish.

This barcode scanning concept could be used in conjunction with a 1-800 number as proposed in the OFS Permit Plan and I believe in the new Alabama mandatory reporting system for snapper.
 
#11 ·
Tom would this work? Everyone that wants to Snapper fish buys a Snapper license and either calls in or goes online on a weekly basis to report catch rather it be 0 or 14 for the week. The condition on permit would be if you do not report catches rather it be 0-14 on a weekly basis then the next following season you will not be allowed to purchase a permit. Once you skipped a season as penalty for not reporting you will be allowed back in. For charters let each individual fishermen be responsible for their snapper permit and reporting. Capt. does a count on permit holders so they know how many fish can be onboard. Permits can be assigned by social security number so children can hold a permit. They could be sold just like a regular fishing license.
 
#13 ·
We need a system of accountability for Red Snapper now and it's pretty much a given that other fish will follow. This system Tom is suggesting may not be perfect but if it came in 95% accurate discounting the phoneless, printerless, naysayers and assorted supremacists it would be so much more better than the dartboard accountability method in current use.

The alternative is to let things go as they are now and within a few years the only people fishing for the much coveted Red Snapper will be the commercial guys and they will laugh all the way to the bank.
 
#14 ·
Number of snapper caught is fine but it's measured by pounds right? Wouldn't you have to enter the weight?? What if you are going fishing in the pass for bull redfish and don't scan out in the am but incidentally catch a limit of snapper? How would that situation be handled? I ask this because I have caught a few red snapper while sheepshead fishing this past week.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Sorry Tom, I wouldn't want the headache of keeping up with a cumbersome reporting process especially when it's not needed.

I attended the FWC meeting today and the information / facts regarding snapper populations since 2000 supports at least 194 days Fed & State waters to be open simultaneously. No need for accountability by any rec groups. It was obvious the FWC commissioners are not excited about sector separation, ifq's, pilot programs but rather use common sense management.

A couple of quotes from today’s meeting from some of the FWC commissioners:

"when is the light bulb going to go off up there", referring to NMFS and the advisory council not acting on the obvious. Red Snapper population is the strongest ever in recorded history but yet the least access allowed ever.

"we need to request the fed gov't to be in compliance with the state of Florida, not the other way around"

We need to get behind our state officials and support them when they tell the Feds we are sick and tired of playing their games and allow the STATES to manage our own darn fisheries!

Jimmy
 
#17 · (Edited)
Back in 1997 when all this regulation of Red Snapper started it was the result of "yep we filled the boat with them" in the years leading up to that. The big Red Snapper we are catching on a regular basis right now are a direct result of the regulation we have endured for the past seventeen years which has given the fishery the time it needed for the population to rebuild and increase with with the added benefit of much bigger fish.

Some of you claiming no need for accountability/regulation have also posted numerous times about the lack of science used in determining bag and season limits. Here is your chance to take the Keebler Cookie Elves out of the equation and put real science in, to arrive at the maximum bag/season limits while maintaining a sustainable fishery. This also means that it is going to take some effort on the part of each and every recreational angler.

Very few of us fish every day so it's not like using some reporting system for five to fifteen minutes is going to put you into therapy due to fish reporting stress. I'm pretty sure that for those that don't have a smart phone, a printer, computer, internet service or access to a public library has at least one friend that would do it for them.

Even better I'm sure there is some wiz bang app on smart phones already that can be adapted to and used on forums like this , then you can post your fishing report, pics and register your catch in the same place.
 
#19 ·
Some of you claiming no need for accountability/regulation have also posted numerous times about the lack of science used in determining bag and season limits.
Just because the Fed's determine rules based upon lack of science or their inability to properly count, the angler must do it for them?

Nope I say.

I think the Fed's know their calculations are off, and do not want to change it. That way they can cater to the lobby money of the Commercial Big Bucks, that line their pockets behind closed doors. (it is politics)

So we volunteer to levy the responsibility of counting (Valid Science) to ourselves? Nope I say.

I believe we need to support our State Officials, in such moves that occurred yesterday. Rally with our State of Florida. Rally with your Gulf Coast State.

And when all Gulf States disagree with the Fed's rules, and change the laws as they did yesterday, we as a State have gained valuable ground.

I do not believe that a Lone Ranger (OP) should rally anglers in multiple states, and then levy responsibilities of proper counting (Science) to ourselves.
 
#18 ·
California Lobster Cards

I don't particularly like the control that the government gains from all the reporting/licensing/allocations but I do recognize the finite resource with competing interests to catch them. Unfortunately some kind of regulation is required. Perhaps we should start with the idea that the fisheries should be managed by numbers caught rather than pounds caught.

California has started issuing lobster cards for reporting catches to obtain data for setting limits and seasons. Each angler is provided one lobster card each season. They are required to mail it in at the end of the season. It must be filled in with location and quantities kept. It must be filled out on the boat and provided to the game warden when checked. As you catch the lobsters and keep them on the boat you must mark your card for each lobster. No phone/computer literacy required.

Bob
 
#20 · (Edited)
So you want it done right, someone else must do it for you, you are not willing to do anything yourself even though you would benefit from it, it is not your responsibility but you retain the right to sit around and complain about it. All I can say is go figure.

Personally I would be so relieved to find a state politician that wanted to take Florida the route that Texas has been on and that Louisiana just took. I would generate all the support for that person that I possibly could and I'm sure many other would as well. We have to remember that you just don't get much for nothing, you have to put something in to get something back.

There are an awful lot of recreational anglers here in Florida and we could make a very powerful block of votes which is the only way we could beat the lobbyists.
 
#21 ·
So you want it done right, someone else must do it for you, you are not willing to do anything yourself even though you would benefit from it, it is not your responsibility but you retain the right to sit around and complain about it. All I can say is go figure.
.
I confirm, that is not what I said, nor is it what I meant.

The words are black and white above.

Put any spin on them you desire.

Add anything to them that are not written, in order to please yourself.

My opinion is mine, and yours is yours.
 
#22 ·
The "Lone Ranger" here. Perhaps the FWC could utilize the core concepts of the Fishing License Barcode Scanning System in their plan. After all, it requires no additional printing of stamps or fish tags, and creates an unsurpassed accountability system with minimal effort.
 
#24 ·
Whatever data is collected, no matter the means, will be used against the recreational fisher.
Catch lots of fish.......restrict fishing because they are being overfished.
Catch too few fish.....restrict fishing because they have been overfished.
 
#25 · (Edited)
The idea is to use data as a weapon. Get the states to implement a plan that provides viable, groudtruthable data to counter the feds' ludicrous claims.

Scan the barcode of the fishermen's licenses and identify the # of snapper caught that day by that license. No need to print fish tags, stamps, and all of the other associated problems such as determining how many to print, who gets them, etc. Simply document how many fish are caught on what day, by whom, whether they are fishing on a charter, private rec, or headboat vessel, what port they came out of, etc. et. etc. A simple scan with a smartphone app by the captain of the vessel does ALL of that is mere seconds.

Everyone who has a saltwater license is eligible to go fish for snapper, but the license is "activated" when the barcode scan is sent to the server, and identified as definitely fishing for snapper that day. How many snapper he caught, or whether or not he caught any at all will be sent to the server when you come back into cell range.

You know what's crazy? I just got an email from the Gulf Council about what was discussed at the last meeting - one point brought up was this;

2014 Recreational Red Snapper Season
After receiving a briefing on a recent court decision in response to a legal challenge on management of the recreational component of the red snapper fishery, the Council took actions to prevent the recreational sector from exceeding its quota in 2014 and beyond.
For the short-term, the Council asked the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) to implement an emergency rule to establish a 20% buffer on the 5.39 million pound recreational quota. The 20% buffer, which provides a low probability (15%) that the quota will be exceeded, combined with the 2013 landings estimates, results in a recreational annual catch target (ACT) of 4.312 million pounds, and an 11-day red snapper recreational season for 2014. The bag limit will remain 2-fish per person.
The 11-day season takes into consideration the incompatible state seasons and bag limits adopted by Texas, Louisiana, and Florida; however, it does not take into account a recent decision by Louisiana to have a year-round red snapper season in state waters. NOAA Fisheries will conduct further analysis to determine if the 11-day season is adequate.

We fished for several years under a 4,468,800 pound red snapper TAC with 4 fish daily bag limits and a 194 day season.

They now claim that we will catch almost the same amount 4,312,000 pounds in 11 days and 2 FISH BAG LIMIT. Yes, the fish have doubled in size, but they also halved our daily bag limit, so those cancel each other out. If you consider that we caught 23,035 pounds per season day back in the day, and they project that we will catch 392,000 pounds per season day this year, doesn't that seem a bit ludicrous to you?

23,035 pounds / 3.5 pounds = 6,581 fish/day / 4 fish limits = 1645 daily bag limits/day.
392,000 pounds / 7 pounds = 56,000 fish/day / 2 fish limits = 28,000 daily bag limits/day.

WE ARE CATCHING 17 TIMES THE BAG LIMITS EACH SEASON DAY THIS YEAR AS COMPARED TO BACK IN THE 2000'S? 17 TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE CATCHING LIMITS EACH SEASON DAY?

NO.


This type of "creative math" by our federal regulators certainly warrants an extra effort to document that this is indeed happening. They are going to point to "non-compatible" state seasons as being the problem, but Texas has ALWAYS had a 365 day season as far as I can remember. The only way to fight this data manipulation is with data of our own that is "NMFS-Free".

Tom Hilton
 
#27 ·
Tom, you nailed it in your last post.

I like most of your plan.

Fellow fishermen/women, like it or not, we do need better data and unless we are willing to be part of the solution, we are going to continue to suffer from plans crafted by NMFS or other entities that do not want us to fish at all.

I don't like the report before you catch anything though. The Government doesn't need to know anything unless we have something to report and we should be able to do that after we get home to accommodate those who don't have smart phones and, to protect our privacy.

Reporting before we ever get on the water is too much information. If we are forced to report before we go fishing that would make it very easy to target people. I don't like that.

They could use effort data against us too. If they decide to measure effort, people who go fishing could be counted the same as people who go catching. There is a BIG difference between the two. Only reporting when there is something to report and allow people to do it from the privacy of their homes. The report should be simple too. Example: How many RS and length.

I would add accountability to the plan. This is Florida, let's have some Sunshine. Tom's idea would make internet access of the data easy for all of us to see. There are ways to protect personal identifying information, most of you do it on this forum by way of a made-up forum name. The Admin knows who you are or at least he knows your IP address.
 
#29 · (Edited)
To adopt Sea Monkey's voice for a moment, "de' ol' report your landings and be a part of the solution" sorry, Think NOT.... I believe it's the ability to maintain and report accurate stock assessments adjusting the regulations accordingly and not attempting to count landings of every Tom, Dick, and so on catching fish which will never be 100% accurate EVER!!!

I do support the commercial reporting program as they our taking OUR resources to the bank.

CFH guys, me included as a capt for hire, we are a platform for the rec anglers so, lets work toward a common goal that will benefit ALL recreation anglers.

It's all about stock assessment and set regulations from there period!

We once had 194 days / 4 a day snapper season and the ARS were documented as rebounding, the gov't has baited many to a "selfie control program" dividing us in as many pieces as possible ( to further their agenda) and still working their plan successfully, just look at AL 90 fleet proposal "give me program".

Results/ accomplishments of our gov't effort, CFH'ers are grasping for their livelihood and conforming to what will not be a favorable outcome. (keep drinking the coo laid fellas if you believe otherwise)

We, (all rec anglers including CFH'ers) need to pull together as one force and remind our elected decision makers we're voting for representation of the health and access to our fisheries and will not stand for the underhanded bait and switch BS that our gov't and EDF tree huggers are trying to force down our throats! ok, that my .02 for tonight!!!

More goverment control is not the solution here fellas! Stand up for your fishing rights, it's not a privelage handed out to a few!!!

Cheers and tight lines!

Jimmy
 
#40 ·
I have been politically active for years and have had conversations with several politicians. Copied letters are not as effective as personally written letters, even if they are only 1 paragraph. Letters that are written in a respectful manner get more consideration than those that spew anger and threats. Facts are always good and explanations of how rules and laws affect you personally are also effective. Economics also get their attention. Mentioning how much your activity contributes to our economy is important.

Remember, you do not have to be eloquent, just make your point and be respectful. The more letters a politician receives on a specific topic, the more important that topic becomes. Your voice is important and it becomes more important when it is added to the voice of many others.
 
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