beacher

"BILOXI, Miss. (AP) - Marine biologists are studying how artificial reefs may help restore red snapper numbers.



The study is being conducted by Mississippi State University's Forest and Wildlife Research Center and the Mississippi Department of Marine Resources.



MSU biologist Don Jackson says in the past 20 years, red snapper stocks are estimated to have declined by as much as 90 percent in the northern Gulf of Mexico."



Does anyone on this board agree with Mr. Jackson's assessment?

countryjwh

i could show him some private spots that would blow his mind with the amount of red snapper.

saltfisher1

I wonder where the number from 20 years ago came from and how they even estimate there numbers?

jvalhenson

if you read the fine print on these so called "studies" the problem is they only study open and natural bottom....they do not study rigs, fish havens, or any other man made structures. so there samples are ridiculously off. with this one talking about artificial reefs maybe it will get a little bit better on the numbers...but again this is being done by someone who most likely has never been anywhere near salt water so i would not hold my breathe for anything

Jhoe

i agree. im tired of hearing how the red snapper are depleted. when is the last time someone didnt catch their limit on red snapper? plus many extra trying to get around them and catch other fish. they are like the pinfish of the ocean now. fishing hoping they leave you alone long enough to catch something.

Mikvi

I just moved from Mississippi. How they gonna count above 20, take more people?

bluffman2

the last time i went out we didnt catch our limit.............BECAUSE we miscounted ....came in 1 short of a 5 man limit :banghead :doh

lbhuntley

<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times-Bold"><P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times-Bold">One more time...<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times-Bold">Like the examples described by Hilborn (2006), a ?faith-based fisheries? argument has been used to defer effective management of red snapper, and has greatly strained the relationships between science, management, and stakeholders in the GOM. The central premise of this argument is that large-scale deployment of artificial reefs in the northern GOM has transformed and improved habitat for adult red snapper, resulting in higher standing stocks that can support higher catches than are currently allowed by law (http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/sfa/sfweb/). In this argument, oil and gas platforms that began appearing in the western GOM in the late 1940?s are considered to be important, as they serve secondarily as large artificial reefs (Bortone and Shipp 2008; Shipp and Bortone 2009).<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P><P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal><B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times-Bold"><O:P></O:P>[/B]<B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times-Bold">The science<O:P></O:P>[/B]<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-bidi-font-size: 18.0pt">We remind all who read this that red snapper stock assessments have been producing the same results since before the first author became involved in the process as chairman of the Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council's reef stock assessment panel in the early 1990?s. From the beginning (see review by Goodyear 1995), assessment results indicated that significant reductions in bycatch mortality of juvenile red snapper attributable to the shrimp industry, coupled with decreased harvest of adults by the directed fishery could result in, perhaps rapid, recovery of the stock (see Reef Fish Stock Assessment Panel Reports from 1990 forward at <SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-bidi-font-size: 18.0pt">http://www.gulfcouncil.org/<SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-bidi-font-size: 18.0pt">, then Library, then Downloadable Files). Despite the enormous body of knowledge that has been amassed about red snapper since the early days, the message has remained consistent. Given that offshore shrimp fishing effort now (early 2009) is down by as much as 75-85% (Gallaway pers. comm.) owing to economic woes, high fuel prices and cheap imported shrimp, bycatch has been declining for the last several years, especially since 2004-2005, and the directed fishery has recently been constrained by the 2007 SFA to lower total allowable catches (TACS). <U>Simply put, the magic formula long prescribed in the assessments has finally been realized</U>. That said, our own sampling off Louisiana and the <U>Florida panhandle</U> (Cowan et al., unpublished data, Will??) indicates that the increase in numbers still is mostly comprised of 2-6 year old fish, but numbers are indeed increasing. <U>Given that the artificial reefs and oil and gas platforms have been in place for many, many years (Shipp and Bortone 2009), it seems counterintuitive to award credit for what we are seeing now to artificial structures that in been in place for so long, based upon a stock that failed to respond until the magic formula was realized. </U><P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: Times; mso-bidi-font-size: 18.0pt">Dr Cowan, if the large, olderred snapper are critical to the stock's recovery, why doesn't Gulf Council recommend a "slot" length for bothcommercial and recreational? Seems to have worked well with the red fish. Last question (for a while)what criteria will the council and NMFS use to decidethat an increase in the annual quota is appropriate?
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none" class=MsoNormal>The problem with a slot limit is the very large gap between the ages now fished most heavily 2 - 6 years and the 14-15 years fish that produce most of the eggs. <U>It is the low escapement past age 6 that is the problem</U>. NMFS is bound by law to end overfishing by 2010. Once that is accomplished, it may be possible to increase harvest by the directed fishery proving that bycatch remains low.
</DIV></DIV>((Fishery Bulletin, Oct, 2001 by William F. Patterson, III, James H. Cowan, Jr., Charles A. Wilson, Robert L. Shipp<BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>"Furthermore, if red snapper recruit to artificial reefs off Alabama from other areas in the northern GOM, Alabama's red snapper fishery may serve as a net sink for stock-specific production."))</DIV><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" id=role_body bottommargin="7" leftmargin="7" topmargin="7" rightmargin="7"></DIV>Some of the following questions and answers apply to the gulf.</DIV></DIV>http://www.safmc.net/Portals/6/Libra...apperFAQ09.pdf</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>Gents, we are simply overfishing.
</DIV>

SnapperSlapper

Jim Cowan is a complete fool. If any of us were as badat our jobs as he is at his, we would no longer have jobs. Again, Jim Cowan is a complete idiot. His isan exampleof all that is wrong with the current system.

His opinion is that artificial reefs actually result in a decrease in the snapper population. This is from his own writing. Hehas an agenda, and I guarantee it doesn't fit very well with recreational fishing.

ryanbr

The problem with your assesment of overfishing is that many of the real questions are never answered. Historical data by which current "models" are basedis not sufficient. There is a lot of conjecture but there is not enough good in water data to support true statistical modeling. Everything printed above is conjecture based on minimal observation. Most of your data is trip and effort data. I've read some of the material which gives some insight intothought processes of those doing much of theresearch and they put a great deal of emphasis on their beliefs inwhat they considertheir"ideal" ecology. Have you ever noticed that no previous study has ever been identified as being wrong. From fisheries management to the ozone hole to global warming. If you look at many of the biologists involved, you'll find most of their timehas beenspent in South Floridaand the Bahamas, with little attention payed to the northern gulf and Texas. Would you rather learn to dive in the Bahamas or around here? Most of this recovery process began more than 15 years ago. You can read much of the info from ten years ago and you'll find that we were "on our way" back then. The bar keeps being moved up right along with historical data.

Chris